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shokoshu
06-12-2011, 10:27 AM
Thank Lilith this is over. :p

I want to highlight again that the writer direly should visit TVTropes
for a bit of enlightment. Take the baddie at the end. Baddie?
Srsly. Anything with >2 eyes and >0 tentacles is a baddie by
definition. Q.E.D. (Compare, just for example, von Kreist. What game
he played with the Mafia boss. Now that's a baddie we love to
hate! Even if he's from Harris :rolleyes: ) Coda, don't say it,
show it, and elaborate on the motivations of the characters.
No "The same thing as every day, we try to attain world domination".

The real Vampirella is spottable even in a formal dress.

Mandrake
06-13-2011, 12:15 PM
Unless we are getting a new writer, who says it's over? Don't thank Lilith prematurely.

eric_trautmann
06-14-2011, 08:11 PM
Thank Lilith this is over. :p

I want to highlight again that the writer direly should visit TVTropes
for a bit of enlightment.


In regards to TV tropes, I presume you mean tropes like this one (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KnowNothingKnowItAll)?

Sure. As soon as you visit WikiHow to learn some basic manners. (http://www.wikihow.com/Have-Good-Manners) Not that this board has ever been particularly pleasant -- beginning with someone calling me HITLER over a pair of pants, before the book was actually released -- but if you expect or desire me to pay any attention to your opinion AT ALL, you might consider not being consistently and aggressively rude from behind your protective cloak of anonymity.

Until then, I'll content myself with broadening the audience beyond the handful of you that want things exactly the way it was before -- when the title failed, repeatedly -- and critical and commercial success.

Apologies to others for my lack of tolerance, but there's a point where defending my work would seem to be justified and I'm quite frankly well past it now with "Shokoshu."

-E

shokoshu
06-15-2011, 02:43 PM
Oh boy, you wouldn't like me when I'm getting *really* impolite.
Yes, I *do* am a know-it-all, but unluckily Dynamite won't hire me
as a writer in the future and any conjecture that I could do it better
remains forever unproven. I also concede that writing a comic is
different from writing a story. Oh, and I haven't yet found how to
enter my real name into my profile, it's Hauke Reddmann. Doesn't
change, though, that there is no polite way to tell you that your
characters lack depth.

eric_trautmann
06-15-2011, 05:09 PM
Oh boy, you wouldn't like me when I'm getting *really* impolite.
Yes, I *do* am a know-it-all, but unluckily Dynamite won't hire me
as a writer in the future and any conjecture that I could do it better
remains forever unproven. I also concede that writing a comic is
different from writing a story. Oh, and I haven't yet found how to
enter my real name into my profile, it's Hauke Reddmann. Doesn't
change, though, that there is no polite way to tell you that your
characters lack depth.

"Oh boy, you wouldn't like me when I'm getting *really* impolite."

So, it's perfectly okay that you behave badly, because you could always behave even more poorly?

That's adorable.

:rolleyes:

Your chances of being hired as a writer vastly improve when you don't write sentences like "Yes, I *do* am a know-it-all [SIC]" or suggesting that comics aren't stories, which is possibly the most absurd comment I've seen of late.

So, this notion that being hired by a publisher is all down to luck is arrant nonsense. It isn't a lack of luck, Hauke; it's, among other things, a lack of demonstrated ability. Have you sent Dynamite's editorial a query on their submission policies? If you have, have you followed them? Have you written pitches and submitted them? Are those pitches professional and worthy of pursuit by a publisher?

I'd be willing to bet the answer is "no." Publishers don't magically fall from the heavens and award contracts. You have to actually do the work.

There isn't some big conspiracy or lack of fortune that prevents you from being a writer. It's the fact that, if you haven't attempted what I outline above, you aren't a writer. And that's not my fault.

If you really want to be a writer, the only thing standing in your way is you, particularly in this day and age of available and cheap web space, print-on-demand, and other tools I would've killed for when I started out.

Want to write for Dynamite, or indeed any other company? Your chances improve by actually making something that demonstrates you have ability -- not only technical and creative ability, but also the ability to actually finish something, which is a surprisingly rare skill.

It's not a guarantee, but it certainly helps, considerably.*

"Doesn't
change, though, that there is no polite way to tell you that your
characters lack depth."

Uh, the way you elected to here is considerably less rude than your prior attempts. Congratulations. Were I inclined to offer constructive criticism about lack of character depth in a series I was reading, I might indeed try something like: "I wish there was more depth to the characters," for example, as opposed to what has been, essentially, "You suck and I'm better!"

Being the biggest jerk in the room may get you the attention you crave, but it's probably not going to be positive attention.

Because, that's how writing and language actually work. You've claimed to be a better writer, and then outlined your fundamental inability to express your position using, y'know, words.

Which is hilarious.

Apropos of this discussion, I'd refer you to Harlan Ellison:

"Everybody has opinions: I have them, you have them. And we are all told from the moment we open our eyes, that everyone is entitled to his or her opinion. Well, that’s horsepuckey, of course. We are not entitled to our opinions; we are entitled to our informed opinions. Without research, without background, without understanding, it’s nothing... It’s like a fart in a wind tunnel, folks."

Of course, petulant, entitled fanboys being petulant, entitled fanboys, I can safely assume none of this will register (because obviously, your opinion is, in your estimation, ironclad fact, and the thousands of people that actually enjoy my work are simply "wrong").

More's the pity.

I've known for too many years that one should never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes one's time and annoys the pig. Of course, there's also a longstanding literary tradition of tilting at windmills, I suppose.

(And cue the outrage at how "mean" I am for "picking on a fan" in 3... 2...)

Sigh.


-E

* See? That's what constructive criticism looks like.

eric_trautmann
06-15-2011, 06:19 PM
AHAHAHAHAAA...

And as if summoned by magic.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=32813

-E

Chiclo
06-16-2011, 08:00 AM
Thank Lilith this is over. :p

I want to highlight again that the writer direly should visit TVTropes
for a bit of enlightment. Take the baddie at the end. Baddie?
Srsly. Anything with >2 eyes and >0 tentacles is a baddie by
definition. Q.E.D. (Compare, just for example, von Kreist. What game
he played with the Mafia boss. Now that's a baddie we love to
hate! Even if he's from Harris :rolleyes: ) Coda, don't say it,
show it, and elaborate on the motivations of the characters.
No "The same thing as every day, we try to attain world domination".

The real Vampirella is spottable even in a formal dress.

It sounds to me like you are looking for tentacle porn. There is plenty of tentacle porn on the internet. There's a reason I didn't buy Vampirella before Dynamite picked it up - I don't read softcore. I am sorry that the character has to be destroyed in your opinion to become readable and interesting in mine.

comixfan1980
06-16-2011, 08:11 AM
There is nothing wrong with Vampirella from Dynamite Entertainment more so than there is something wrong with close minded fans who want the same ol' same ol' in their comics without any evolution. I love Vampirella as she is now but in 20 years I won't want Vampirella as she is now, I'll have wanted her to evolve and mature as a character, that's exactly what Dynamite and Eric have done with her and it's pretty darn fun.

K. Patrick Glover
06-16-2011, 08:58 AM
What I find interesting about the hardcore Vampirella fans being upset by the new book is the idea that hardcore Vampirella fans exist. Seriously. In 30 years of hanging out in comic shops and at conventions, I've never met one.

I'll tell you who I have met, though. Many fans (myself included) who are buying the current book because Eric Trautmann is writing it.

GrayPumpkin
06-16-2011, 10:18 AM
I have no beef with Dynamite. The Vampirella Archives have been a blast and Vampirella and the Scarlet Legion, though only one issue in, is looking to be just what I was hoping for in this relaunch. Iím also thrilled with Kirby Genesis. So yeah, Dynamite is getting my money. Just not for the regular Vampirella book. Not because this book was so different and daring. Letís face it most of differences were cosmetic at best, but rather, because after giving it four issues, I found it to be just more of the same of bland story telling we got in the Harris era, you know, back when the book failed and again and again.

comixfan1980
06-16-2011, 10:59 AM
Vampirella from Dynamite is sure doing well in sales, last month it was within the top 115 books (out of 300) in sales, which is excellent for a non-Marvel/DC company who publish almost 300 books between two. Vampirella is a success with DE and I hope to see the title maintain it's high readership throughout it's (hopefully) long life.

GrayPumpkin
06-16-2011, 11:28 AM
Vampirella from Dynamite is sure doing well in sales, last month it was within the top 115 books (out of 300) in sales, which is excellent for a non-Marvel/DC company who publish almost 300 books between two. Vampirella is a success with DE and I hope to see the title maintain it's high readership throughout it's (hopefully) long life.
Of course it was 87th back in May. Granted that is the norm with many books that bank on the name recognition of an established character, big sales early on then a trickling down until the book finds its audience or doesn't. So I'd say the jury is still out on that.
It success or lack of it aside, it is certainty a book that has failed to connect with me. I'm just glad Dynamite is offering alternatives, Scarlet Legion, as mentioned, has managed to capture my interest despite my disappointment with the main title.

eric_trautmann
06-16-2011, 01:29 PM
It success or lack of it aside, it is certainty a book that has failed to connect with me. I'm just glad Dynamite is offering alternatives, Scarlet Legion, as mentioned, has managed to capture my interest despite my disappointment with the main title.

And that's a fair comment; it's unfortunate the book didn't connect with you, but obviously, the old saw about "you can't please everyone" certainly applies.

A certain amount of the first story arc was necessitated by the editorial requirements of the publisher; there were specific beats that they wanted, and simply for the kind of story being told, it necessitated a certain kind of narrative style.

Now that we're through the "re-establishing" of the character phase, I plan to widen the scope a bit, and deal a bit more with some of Vampi's human relationships as well.

Your own mileage may vary, but after issue 7 -- a done-in-one "epilogue" of sorts focusing on Sofia and why she "belongs" (for lack of a better term) in Vampi's immediate circle, the three-issue story beginning in 8 is quite a bit different than the more psychological/investigative structure of Crown of Worms. You may want to give it a look (or, y'know, not). ;)

In any event, thanks for your comments and I'm pleased there's a Vampirella book out there you do connect with.

Best,

-E

Ghostbear
06-16-2011, 01:54 PM
I'm pretty pleased with the book so far. It took a character that I cared nothing about and made her interesting and fun. Personally, I'm glad we ditched the costume, it's ludicrous.

GrayPumpkin
06-16-2011, 02:56 PM
Your own mileage may vary, but after issue 7 -- a done-in-one "epilogue" of sorts focusing on Sofia and why she "belongs" (for lack of a better term) in Vampi's immediate circle, the three-issue story beginning in 8 is quite a bit different than the more psychological/investigative structure of Crown of Worms. You may want to give it a look (or, y'know, not). ;)

In any event, thanks for your comments and I'm pleased there's a Vampirella book out there you do connect with.

Best,

-E
I might at that, I have to admit that the ad in Kirby Genesis for Vamiperilla 10, sounded like a fun idea. Weird that they are pushing issue 10 when the story starts on issue 8, though it is a striking cover.

Captain Craig
06-16-2011, 03:03 PM
Wow, the thread was not quite about the issue. I just read it last night, I stay behind. I've stated this before but this is my first "real" shot at giving Vampirella a try. Yes, in the 25 years I've read I've been exposed to her via crossovers or what not but this is the first arc I've ever read.

Eric I liked it very much. Sorry one, or some jumped on you but you seemed firm enough in your reply without being an a$$ imo. I'd stand up for my work as well. Hope that guy doesn't read DC books, let's hope he does and he can take his anger over there. Those boards are on fire, let me tell you.

In an earlier thread during this arc you had told me the talisman was affecting her and here it clearly is shown as the McGuffin, so to speak. My question is, "Will this return at some point or is it lost/destroyed for good" Also, will she return to her street attire look as she started the arc in or is she kind of awakened and will be wearing the "traditional" Vampy costume that she walks off in. I saw a house ad for issue #10 and she's in that costume but it's just a picture.

Curious about what is in store down the road and also glad to hear that sales are strong or strong enough for the book!! :D

GrayPumpkin
06-16-2011, 03:06 PM
I'm pretty pleased with the book so far. It took a character that I cared nothing about and made her interesting and fun. Personally, I'm glad we ditched the costume, it's ludicrous.
I miss the costume. Admittedly some of that is nostalgia, but lets face it, when it comes down to it all "Super-Hero" costumes are fairly ludicrous, so why not embrace the kookiness? That said, her being in a different costume is not a make or break deal for me. Though I do it find odd they they keep the costume for the covers. Comes off as wishy-washy to me.

eric_trautmann
06-16-2011, 03:42 PM
Wow, the thread was not quite about the issue. I just read it last night, I stay behind. I've stated this before but this is my first "real" shot at giving Vampirella a try. Yes, in the 25 years I've read I've been exposed to her via crossovers or what not but this is the first arc I've ever read.

Eric I liked it very much. Sorry one, or some jumped on you but you seemed firm enough in your reply without being an a$$ imo. I'd stand up for my work as well. Hope that guy doesn't read DC books, let's hope he does and he can take his anger over there. Those boards are on fire, let me tell you.

In an earlier thread during this arc you had told me the talisman was affecting her and here it clearly is shown as the McGuffin, so to speak. My question is, "Will this return at some point or is it lost/destroyed for good" Also, will she return to her street attire look as she started the arc in or is she kind of awakened and will be wearing the "traditional" Vampy costume that she walks off in. I saw a house ad for issue #10 and she's in that costume but it's just a picture.

Curious about what is in store down the road and also glad to hear that sales are strong or strong enough for the book!! :D

The "Key" will return, yes, and Yag-Ath Vermellus' attempt to claw his/its way into our world opened the door for all manner of nastiness.

The street attire will return starting in issue 8. And just because I'm all CRAZY, it won't be exactly the same as at the start of issue 1. I thought it might be some kind of radical concept, a character who changes her clothes every day based on things like the weather or occasion. ;)

The original costume will likely dominate covers, though.

-E

eric_trautmann
06-16-2011, 03:48 PM
I miss the costume. Admittedly some of that is nostalgia, but lets face it, when it comes down to it all "Super-Hero" costumes are fairly ludicrous, so why not embrace the kookiness? That said, her being in a different costume is not a make or break deal for me. Though I do it find odd they they keep the costume for the covers. Comes off as wishy-washy to me.

Well, for one thing, it's not a superhero story. The superhero costume makes sense in something like the DC or Marvel universe, but in the case of this incarnation of Vampirella, we're in a much more grounded, and "realistic" (as realistic as vampires, extradimensional horrors, etc. can be) setting.

I must confess to finding the costume on EVERY cover problematic; I don't know this for a fact, but I suspect much of the original slate of covers were commissioned LONG before I was hired and wrote the first issue, and Dynamite was probably a little shocked that I pushed for the clothing change. Once Dynamite hired me, we were moving pretty fast.

And I'm pretty sure that DE does keep it on the covers precisely to give something to folks who share your nostalgia.

I've lobbied for a while to have one variant cover per issue that has the new clothing, but writers rarely have control over the covers in such cases. Just the nature of the beast.

And the vintage costume will crop up from time to time, as situationally appropriate. "Vlad is basically a perv" seemed like a good way to organically grow the costume's appearance from the story I was telling, and I have a few other ways to justify it in future issues.

Best,

-E

Ghostbear
06-16-2011, 03:58 PM
I miss the costume. Admittedly some of that is nostalgia, but lets face it, when it comes down to it all "Super-Hero" costumes are fairly ludicrous, so why not embrace the kookiness? That said, her being in a different costume is not a make or break deal for me. Though I do it find odd they they keep the costume for the covers. Comes off as wishy-washy to me.

Even in the Super hero world they amount to slightly more than some straps, a thong and a come hither smile. (most of the time ;) )

Captain Craig
06-16-2011, 04:25 PM
The "Key" will return, yes, and Yag-Ath Vermellus' attempt to claw his/its way into our world opened the door for all manner of nastiness.

The street attire will return starting in issue 8. And just because I'm all CRAZY, it won't be exactly the same as at the start of issue 1. I thought it might be some kind of radical concept, a character who changes her clothes every day based on things like the weather or occasion. ;)

The original costume will likely dominate covers, though.

-E
Thanks for the reply. I think the street attire looks good. I'd shrink up the Vampy bling on her neck a bit but other than that.

They may have commissioned those covers early on but at some point it would be nice to see her street look portrayed on 'a' cover at least.

Noticed that issue #7 is going to address, Sophie and why she'll be important, cool. Her hanging around is better explained early.

eric_trautmann
06-16-2011, 06:09 PM
Thanks for the reply. I think the street attire looks good. I'd shrink up the Vampy bling on her neck a bit but other than that.

They may have commissioned those covers early on but at some point it would be nice to see her street look portrayed on 'a' cover at least.

Noticed that issue #7 is going to address, Sophie and why she'll be important, cool. Her hanging around is better explained early.

In re: the bat "bling"... Fabiano does precisely that in 8-11. :) How's that for service?

Sofia is going to be around for quite a while, to give V. some semblance of personal contact, but yeah, there's a bit more to her role than is immediately apparent. Issue 7 touches on it, but I intend to continue to examine that relationship throughout the series.

Best,

-E

comixfan1980
06-16-2011, 09:02 PM
I'm pretty pleased with the book so far. It took a character that I cared nothing about and made her interesting and fun. Personally, I'm glad we ditched the costume, it's ludicrous.

I'm digging her current costume a lot more than I had her previous costume, but I didn't get attatched to Vampirella previously because I never cared about her (just like you) until now. She's become one of my favorite female characters in a comic book series alongside Dejah Thoris and Marvel's Spider-Woman, it's funny because I think back some 10-20 years ago when I cared nothing for her and tried getting into her character and couldn't, until now.

nickybdynamite
06-17-2011, 11:52 AM
First and foremost, I want to thank the posters who gave balanced, or at least backed up, critcisms. Eric is a great writer in my opinion. It is the reason that we work with him. And yes, we do like him, but that is partially based on his being a professional as well as a good guy. Looking at Jason Aaron's CBR interview that Eric linked to, yes, Eric has turned down projects he did not want to work on. He was direct, but polite. On Vampirella, we wanted to ensure that we could make her more than a T/A book. The T/A books ruled the early '90's, and that is almost all Harris did, with the exception when Grant Morrison and Mark Millar came on board and at least gave her a jacket to wear when she was not fighting. I don't know how much they "took" from one of comics greatest editors and writers, Archie Goodwin, but they made her "work", in our opinion. Archie also made her "work", and gave her a story instead of just being a T/A book. And keep in mind, that Harris kept her only in the traditional outfit on the inside, regardless of it didn't seem feasible. And yes, we focus on her classic look on the covers, but that is to draw fans in. Without good story, the series would be cancelled very soon. There has to be more substance, and when the story requires, she is in costume. As has been posted, the book is not for everyone, but those who give it a chance, at least, from what I can tell, it's a book that at least was worth trying, and many stayed with her.

Thanks for your time!

Nick

eric_trautmann
06-17-2011, 04:10 PM
@Nick:

Thanks, boss. :)

-E

Captain Craig
06-18-2011, 09:51 PM
Mr.President Nick good post.
I have to say it's refreshing to see one at your level checking in and seeing what fans are saying as well as encouraging your employees to check in from time to time. Fans don't see this on the Marvel board and outside of Gail on BOP at the DC boards I don't see it.

I can get why diehards would be upset. Fandom goes through it when Peter Parker may be the clone or Hal Jordan isn't the Green Lantern.

I hope that those Vampy fans come around and like the above characters may just find that her current journey is just another trail along the way. I'm late, way late to the Vampy world but I'm looking forward to what Eric has cooked up.

Mandrake
06-19-2011, 02:02 AM
[QUOTE=eric_trautmann;20239]In regards to TV tropes, I presume you mean tropes like this one (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KnowNothingKnowItAll)?

So, because he disagrees with your writing style, he is a 'know nothing, know it all'? Or has he been virulently rude to you on other occasions?

I can assure you that I am far from a know nothing about this character, having read and reread every issue from the beginning of the Warren years on several times over.

During the time after Warren, when no one in the public knew who owned the character, I wrote the character for several years in what I will now call 'fan zines'. Not only did my writing win awards, but it was in thanks to this writing that I was hired as an assistant editor for two national magazines: Bloodlines and The Journal of Dark.

But in truth, I should not have to state my credentials as a writer, or as an amateur Vampirella historian, in order to state that I am greatly saddened by your run on the series thus far. (Do YOU remember who Valerie Durrell ism ir why that name is important to Vampirella?)

And no matter how much the original poster may have angered you...that is a part of the job of professional writer. Or any professional artist, for that matter. One person's Jackson Pollack is another person's drop cloth. Publicly upbraiding him in the fashion that you did discourages valid opinions of people who buy comics.

So many people are saying "Well, this is great! Of course, I never read her before or cared about her before." If you are creating for the new fans alone, then any character name could be used, and the covers could be far less misleading.

How can you have such hubris as to question the writing ability of the great Warren era authors...like Archie Goodwyn...who felt it totally appropriate to write the character in her classic costume?

Listen, I hated Harris comics. I called Dave Bogart a bone head to his face one more than one occasion. And all Harris artists did, with very few exceptions, was draw shots that they had seen in skin mags...and draw as little red string as they could get away with drawing.

But the most important thing to me is the writing! And so far, that is where you are failing me. Unless issue seven stuns me, we don't need another Chelsea or Dixie. (Dixie is the most idiotically named character in Vampirella history. I am including 'Star Patch' in my summation.) Fans of the CHARACTER (remember us, the ones not saying 'We never cared about her before?") want Pendragon.

Dracula and Vampirella have a long and storied history. Sometimes lovers, sometimes enemies, sometimes caught in the middle of the two. Yet, you barely have the character speak and when he does it is all "Madman, madman, take over the world, marry our heroine to some dark god." It wasn't there, Eric.

Le Fanu had the makings of a new "Red Queen" level villain. But instead, all we got were repetitive fight scenes in every issue.

I am happy for you that your publisher stands by your vision. And that new fans are being drawn to your NEW character. But I am very saddened that the name of Vanpirella is being used to sell a comic that has chosen to throw away the rich tapestry that is her legacy.

Bright Blessings and good fortune to you.

Mandrake
06-19-2011, 02:07 AM
In re reading my post, I noticed several typos I missed the first time. Feel free to use them to berate me as you did the original poster. I am legally blind, and retired from writing, but I expect no respect from those younger and obviously far wiser than me.

Chiclo
06-19-2011, 08:20 AM
While I think everyone here can recognize and appreciate your passion for the character, you are taking it to the kinds of extremes parodied by the comic book guy on the Simpsons. In your extremity, you are continuing a stereotype that few comic book fans fit and those of us that don't, resent.

I am not asking you to quit caring about Vampirella - nobody should do that. I am asking that you not be such a jerk about how you don't like the new direction.

shokoshu
06-19-2011, 10:10 AM
I am asking that you not be such a jerk about how you don't like the new direction.

Is it really a thing about "direction"?
Only partly, I think. Harris were responsible for turning Vampirella
into a superheroine, and while I think this was an idea as
intelligent as making Homer Simpson security chief of a nuclear
plant, it wasn't completely alien to her character nor responsible
for the degradation of quality.
(There were some *excellent* Harris issues.)
Likewise, the fact that the costume got smaller and smaller in
Harris times was hardly the main issue. (But merely a reflection
of the different concept of Vampirella.)

The problem is obvious: Producing comics costs money. If you are
a smaller company (I hope Dynamite doesn't get insulted now... )
it costs the same money. Warren was broke in the end.
OK, where do you put your money? In hiring top-notch artists,
of course, since this will have immediate return. Comic is mostly
a visual art after all, and while Pepe is dead, alas, neither Harris
nor Dynamite did/do a bad job in that respect.
Whoopsie! No more money left! (While evidently Eric and me
vastly disagree over his writing, he probably won't disagree that
he ain't no, say, Whedon or Straczynski. With continuity so badly
screwed up and four to five conflicting concepts as in the case
of Vampirella, a giant *would* be needed to sort the mess out.)

Eric, I absolutely understand that you are miffed when I say you
suck (never in these words, BTW). I would be too when you say
the same of my chess problems (yup, that's an art form) but I
would always accept objective criteria. One example? Sofia.
I forgot her name about ten seconds after reading the comic,
whereas I recognize Dixie *although* she is from Harris time,
and things like "Ella Normandy" and "Valerie Durrell" I can spell
out without thinking. Because I'm a fanboy with beginning Alzheimer?
Nah, because - eh, what was her name again? :p - is just an
expendable.

Miscellanous Misunderstandings et al.:
@Eric: No thanks, I rather would have the job I learnt (chemist)
than working as comic writer. Additional problem is: I'm a German,
and English isn't my language. (Please spare words like "petulant"
for your stories, I have to look them up in the dictionary. ;) )
BTW, I made a few Poser3D (in which I suck less than drawing -
but still suck) stories at Renderosity. Feel free to take a look at
them and lambast me. (But only the writing, please. I should add
that anything I try my hands at turns out as a super-short comedy,
another thing that probably ruins my comic career-to be.)

@Chiclo: Mmmmh, tentiporn! :D But no thanks, not in a Vampirella
comic. (Although, this would be a fun of a trope to be averted.
Run-of-the-mill tentimonster expects average dumb Japanese schoolgirl
and gets badly mauled by Vampirella. Chalk 1 up for Womens Lib.
Blackout to Vampirella and Pantha dining at a table. Pantha: "Mmmh,
delicious sushi! Why don't you...oh, forgot, you're still on a blood diet.
Which store did you get that?" Vampirella: "Hentai." Get Amanda Conner
back to do that!)

@Mandrake: Don't worry, I started the flak, I can take the backfire.
I've been in forums that consists nearly *just* of insults, I don't even
bother that, technically, Eric already lost by default resp. Godwin :p
(not Archie, with 2 o, of course).

@TheBigDynamiteBoss: See, that's what I like at the USA. Freedom
of speech is holy. If I'd pull the same stunt in Germany, I probably
would get my puny backside flogged and banned in no time. (And
keep encouraging Eric, as I would gladly accept him proving me
merely being a petulant entitled fanboy with his next, this time
well-researched, emotional, deep, groundbreaking Vampirella story.
For the better of us all.)

eric_trautmann
06-20-2011, 01:09 PM
In re reading my post, I noticed several typos I missed the first time. Feel free to use them to berate me as you did the original poster. I am legally blind, and retired from writing, but I expect no respect from those younger and obviously far wiser than me.

I have no issue with people disliking the work. Where I take issue is when, because of an affection for a particular character, posters think it's okay to simply engage in personal attacks.

I've PMd you about this as well, and obviously my response angered you; for that you have my apologies. That said, for example, calling someone a "bone head" isn't really critique, nor should anyone have to put up with it. Responding to Shokoshu in kind isn't something I entered into lightly, or without great trepidation, but if it stings, perhaps that will encourage a slightly elevated level of discourse than "you suck."

Or not. We'll see.

In any event, I think -- in terms of people's expression of their opinions -- those who've addressed me directly with complaints or concerns in a civil manner have been treated with civility in return, so I don't expect there to be a huge chilling effect on this forum. A cursory glance at replies and general activity shows that this thread has had considerably more activity than pretty much every other one here, so I think -- while that's a valid concern, and I do hear and respect your opinion -- people do feel free to express their opinion.

Best,

-E

Mandrake
06-20-2011, 03:48 PM
Eric, your pm did not anger me at all. I just did not know that I could even receive a pm here, and had to go find it after you mentioned it. As I said before, I have severe macular degeneration, which I why I rarely write or sketch anymore.

I am glad that discussion is happening, and that opinions are being shared. It just saddens me when the writer AND the publisher both state...unequivocally...that they never cared for the character before. And to have NEW readers echoing that statement, and no one seeming to realize that it is a major dismissal of long time fans of the character.

Do I feel that what you arew doing with the character is as bad as what Harris did? No. Absolutely not. What you are writing is readable, if thus far erring on the repetitive side. In many ways, as far as Vampirrella goes, you are throwing away the baby with the bathwater.

As for it not being productive that I called Bogart a Bonehead...he had given three different answers to why he made his own continuity errors about Pantha in one conversation. Instead of just admitting that he stated one thing in one series, and then another in Sad Wings of Destiny, he just making stuff up that didn't match the things he said five minutes earlier. Frustration was key in my decision to call him a bonehead.

eric_trautmann
06-20-2011, 04:01 PM
Eric, your pm did not anger me at all. I just did not know that I could even receive a pm here, and had to go find it after you mentioned it. As I said before, I have severe macular degeneration, which I why I rarely write or sketch anymore.

I am glad that discussion is happening, and that opinions are being shared. It just saddens me when the writer AND the publisher both state...unequivocally...that they never cared for the character before. And to have NEW readers echoing that statement, and no one seeming to realize that it is a major dismissal of long time fans of the character.

Do I feel that what you arew doing with the character is as bad as what Harris did? No. Absolutely not. What you are writing is readable, if thus far erring on the repetitive side. In many ways, as far as Vampirrella goes, you are throwing away the baby with the bathwater.

As for it not being productive that I called Bogart a Bonehead...he had given three different answers to why he made his own continuity errors about Pantha in one conversation. Instead of just admitting that he stated one thing in one series, and then another in Sad Wings of Destiny, he just making stuff up that didn't match the things he said five minutes earlier. Frustration was key in my decision to call him a bonehead.

I don't believe I've ever stated I don't care for the character. If I didn't care at all, I wouldn't be writing the book.

There's a specific reason I didn't, for example, underscore which of V.'s various origins is the "correct" one -- specifically, to avoid alienating the various sub-camps of her fandom. That was a deliberate decision made precisely to honor what came before, rather than attempt yet another retcon.

The commercial reality is, if the character is to survive, it needs to adapt to a changing marketplace and changing user perceptions, for lack of a better term. (Hypothetically, if DE were to pursue a Vampirella movie or television series, the reality is, no actress worth her salt is going to want to wear that costume full time. So, providing a tone and structure that could be adapted to other media in a credible, non-campy way was part of my decision to push the comic series in the direction I did. I know that's sort of inside baseball and boring behind-the-scenes stuff, but it wasn't just a random decision.)

(I'd add, my wife and I own a comic retail store, and we've seen a tremendous uptick in interest in the series in our own store -- admittedly anecdotal "evidence," but applicable to the discussion, I think -- in female readers who otherwise would've ignored the character. Food for thought, anyway.)

I can't say that I followed the character extensively, but certainly was aware of her various incarnations, and sat down to do a lot of homework. I'm sure I will and have made mistakes, but my hope is to push the character in directions that will appeal beyond the existing fan base (which seems to be happening).

At no point did I ever intend to denigrate the work of those who came before, but I think virtually all of them -- from Goodwin to Ellis to Moore to Millar -- would agree that change and attempting to express something in my own voice is better than simply echoing their work.

The first six issues sort of set the scene and tone for new readers, and now I'm free to widen the scope a bit, so, hopefully the next few stories will appeal more to long time readers (now that we've established who the character is for newer readers).

In re: the "Bonehead" comment; my bad! That wasn't intended to be directed at you. Rather, it was meant to express a generalized view at the vast majority of "commentary" from ... certain individuals.

And, of course, you make an excellent point in regards to being frustrated. I think the same could possibly be said of my state of mind in embarking on this particularly dicey course of action. ;)

Sincerely, though: Thank you for taking the time to weigh in, and I hope you stick around for future issues, but if not, hopefully you find the Scarlet Legion miniseries and Archive reprints are satisfactorily scratching your Vampi itch.

Best,

-E

eric_trautmann
06-20-2011, 04:05 PM
Eric, your pm did not anger me at all. I just did not know that I could even receive a pm here, and had to go find it after you mentioned it.

Oh, and hopefully the details of the PM added some context to the situation. And feel free to PM me directly with any questions, critique or comments in future.

Best,

-E

rlvaugh
07-01-2011, 11:28 PM
About trouble handling Vampi being in costume all the time, that's what I like about her old job as Pendragon's magician's assistant: it made sense to wear that on stage and a lot of adventures happened (or began) on stage. She did get to wear normal clothes in the Warren era (such as jeans with the top of the costume forming the top. And that wonderful trenchcoat. But as someone said, "The costume is the character."

I think it works best when the writer ignores the fact that she's in the costume,writes her like she's in normal clothes, and just assumes the readers have X-ray specs to use when the story drags a bit. That allows the great moments when characters DO notice her outfit, like the mad doctor in Vampi #52 (Warren) kissing her hand and saying offhandedly, "By the way, I like your attire." To which she replies, in an equally sedate manner, "Thank you, not many notice." Brilliant & great fun for the reader.

About Vampi #6, I should go back and reread the earlier issues but I'm lazy. I didn't quite get what the key did when pressed into Vampi's forehead, and why Dracula considered that so clever??? There must have been some presaging, I either missed it or forgot it.

shadowkat
07-04-2011, 02:44 AM
wow can't believe i missed all the fun. ERIC, i do think you are a competent writer.When i first saw vampi i was thrown off by her costume and refused to give her a chance because i felt she looked ridiculous...even by superhero standards. it was only when i read the great works of morrison etc that i grew to love her.So having her not in costume all the time is a good idea on your part. but i think your take on vampirella is really....boring. queen of worms?tentacles? a wimpy dracula? an annoying lesbian side kick? i think this comic is only doing good right now because its being backed by dynamite and receiving loads of promotion that vampirella under harriss severely lacked. Not to mention its much more cheaper then vampirella use to be. Once the hype has died down i can't see this book truly lasting any longer.

rlvaugh
07-04-2011, 10:03 PM
Once the hype has died down i can't see this book truly lasting any longer.

Excluding (somewhat) the Scarlet Legion, what Dynamite has done so far is basically continue the unsuccessful Harris character without the costume and with even more confusing continuity. Harris started their run with a bang back in the early '90s thanks to the large contingent of core fans left over from the Warren days. The book was in the Previews top 100 for half a year or so and then began to fail as Harris managed to run off more and more of the old fans. I assume you could argue that Vampirella no longer has enough core fans to really matter. If so, a total character reboot is in order.

Oh wait, Harris tried that with the Manga Vampi junk. Nevermind...

I'll keep buying the book for now, but I wouldn't invest a penny in a Vampirella stock.

shadowkat
07-09-2011, 07:08 PM
i disagree. vampirella failing had more to do with sh*t storylines then it alienating old fans.

shokoshu
07-10-2011, 11:28 AM
I tend to agree because there surely were some good Harris issues.
(And the whole Lilith arc, sending the continuity to hell and back,
literarily, belonged to that, IMHO. It might have contradicted the
continuity but NOT the character.)

rlvaugh
07-10-2011, 08:31 PM
i disagree. vampirella failing had more to do with sh*t storylines then it alienating old fans.

No doubt. And Harris's mundane, trite, and over-exploited vampire-hunter origin theme was a large part of the sh*ttiness. You can't make anything with cookie dough but cookies...

On a slightly different subject, it's interesting how Vampirella #7 has been by far the best received issue in the Dynamite era. I remember Melody C.C., an early Harris editor, telling me in the letters page that "no one wanted to know what Vampi has for breakfast". She was run off after about a year. Unfortunately, none of the other editors ever cared "what Vampi had for breakfast" either.

There was a lot more breakfast in #7 than vampire-hunting.

shadowkat
07-19-2011, 08:30 PM
vampirella has been hunting down vampires for ages. atleast her revised origin gave her decent reason for doing it other then "there bad".

rlvaugh
07-20-2011, 07:26 PM
She did not hunt many vampires in the Warren issues, to which I was referring.

And her motivation to fight them now seems to be "they're bad." That stupid Momma thing was undone in Revelations.

KillerKnight
08-02-2011, 07:31 PM
Hard core Fan, what is that? Some one who does a lot of posts? Some one that follows a a specific person? I've been reading Vampirella since 1975 ,so am I hardcore? If so you've met yet another such fan. I'm sure many more exist. I've also followed most DC ,Marvel, Independant comics since the late 50's.What exactly do you consider hardcore. Hauke may very well be an excellent writer, I don't really know. I know Trauteman is good. If he was'nt he would be working some where else.