who is dejah thoris?

[comichero]

ok, I only know this story of the warlord of mars thru the DE comics. So what i am saying is I know very little about ERB creations. My question is what type of person is Dejah Thoris? Is she the sueprhero type we see in her comics (WoMDT)?, or the type from the Warlord of mars comics letting john carter protect her? it seems to me there is some confusion as to what she is. I have also heard and read on some of these post that she should not be wearing any clothes. Is that from ERB? if that is true should the more risque covers, be done with a all risque comic? just some questions from someone who has just stepped into this wonderful world of ERB.

[Ralok]

in the original books Dejah Thoris did not wear much clothes, nobody on mars did

I am personally in the camp that believes they wore sufficient enough clothes to protect vulnerable areas

And . .. . hell dejah thoris is a nobody in the original books, some people interpret her as a strong independent battle maiden, others as a damsel in distress. . . .

she doesnt really have much of any personality in the books, she is most of the time sitting captive

she got mad at john carter a few times before they fell in love . . . . I dont know why he would choose her over sola

as for the perverse covers, no they shouldnt be nudity does not mean sexual perversity. The original books had no sexual perversity, they were dignified adn respectable

although the women were nude the men did not stare nor loose themselves to lust upon seeing their bodies

the books did not exploit dejah thoris' body, and neither should the book covers!

[comichero]

if she did not have alot of personality in the source books, did she become who she is now by DE?, or was it something started in marvel comics and carried on here? I just wonder if comicbooks they took liberty on her because she was not fully devopled in the source books, to branch out and take her in some new direction? It is nice to know that ERB did not write the books with women being looked at and lusted over, it sounds like there was some nobility about the people and places in the writings. A higher order if you will. My next question would be then, were the source books filled with the same amount of fighting and violence as the comics?, or is that something else spiced up by the comics? I do like the amount of action and fighting in the comics.

[Ralok]

oh yes . . . teh books were violent, but not graphicly violent in description . . . I would almost call it disney-esque the way taht it handled death and mortality

yes there was lots of cannibalism, but we would more often be told horrible things are happening than have them vividly described to us

they are action packed but not gorefests


she is alot more like what we see in warlord prime (main series) BUT she is very brave and calm cool and colected in the face of danger, and not hesistant to kill herself if she needs to!

that is why you have these two interpretations, you have people that look at the strong woman aspects, and people who look at the other stuff

she is really somewhere in beetween . . . I dare say she is more normal than either . . . she is a very normal woman who has to do what the situation demands

and I dare say she doesnt want to get in john carters way most of the time . . .

she was willing to stand by carters side when he battled the warhoon though

These two interpretations, superhero, and damsel in distress . . . . are the result of people reading hte books in different ways

and it changes with every writer

the first half of the marvel comics saw her as she is in warlord prime, second half showed her a warrior babe!

seems to be happening with the disney-marvel comics, princess shows her like she is a damsel in distress, world shows her as a warrior babe

it is a result of a complex personality from the books that people want to simplify, but they have to take two seperate paths in order to simplify

does anything I am saying make sense?

and one thing about the books . . . they spent alot more time on the world than the comics did . . . . some of the eerrors in the comics are almost shameful with all the detail Ed put into the books! (all comics!)

[comichero]

thank you for your help in this, I am pretty sure you have single-handedly made me want to read the ERB books now. There seems to be a rich history there, that I feel compelled know. As a fan of the DE warlord of Mars comics, I want to learn more about John Carter and the world in which he was made famous in. so, in that regauard I would like to thank DE for bringing the Warlord of Mars series to us!:) To you Ralok thank you, for helping me into this path I now seemed to be on. It sure seems there are some people in this forum that know there ERB Warlord of Mars stuff, and that makes me want to know too. I think anytime a comic can bring people to a subject "Lord of the Rings, Lord of the Jungle, Warlord of Mars, Game of Thrones, ect.." that is taken from books/novels and let them glimpse into that world. That opens the door to the true greatness of both comics and novels which is to allow everyone a chance to enjoy them.

by the way I only picked up my 1st Warlord of Mars comic from DE because Joe Jusko was doing the covers. I have been a fan of his art my whole life. I am glad to say the comic, the art, and the characters have not disapointed me. Thank you DE for bringing this to those of us who have never seen it before.

[transversal]

I would also like to respond to your questions, not because I disagree with Ralok, but because my answers may give you a different perspective. Remember that ERB was born in 1875 and wrote about Barsoom beginning in 1912, so his ideas of women's roles in society were taken from that period. The Barsoom series was essentially his Victorian knights and damsels series, as opposed to his other cultures (African jungle, prehistoric cavemen, etc). Dejah Thoris was a princess, and had all the attitudes that title conveyed, with none of the stereotypical vices. She was very down-to-earth and courageous, ethically speaking, and very smart. Smarter than John Carter, I believe. I don't remember her ever picking up a sword, however. Most women carried a dagger somewhere in the female harness they wore.

The first time John Carter sees Dejah Thoris, she has no clothes on whatsoever, and stays like this without any sort of commentary for quite some time. In the first book, she even remarks that Earth people wear scraps of cloth, which she does not understand. She is also extremely beautiful. These two characteristics have fired artists' imaginations for decades, and you can Google her to see what I mean. She does wear the royal version of the female harness, though, especially for official functions. Even though men and women in that society wear next to nothing, there is no direct mention of sex, and nudity plays no role as a plot device in the stories. Women are generally characterized as willing to take their own lives rather than be raped.

As far as the violence, I always got the idea that Burroughs considered that Mars, being the god of war, would be a planet filled with fighting. Everyone is fighting. John Carter loves to fight, but there is so much of it that he becomes a peacemaker there. I always found it fun that whenever John Carter gets the drop on someone else, (being the hero) he says "do not fight and you can leave in peace", or something similar. No one ever takes his offer...no matter what the odds, they always attack with no fear of death. This provided an avenue for Burroughs to show how good a swordsman John Carter was, and most of the fights were done with swords, as gunfire was deemed to be unmanly in personal duels.

Hope this gives you a more comprehensive idea of the characters and the setting. I've been reading those books off and on for almost 40 years, and I never get tired of them. If you can find them, I recommend getting the 1970's book club editions with the Frazetta illustrations. As far as comics go, DE far exceeds any previous version in my opinion.

[Vampirella]

transversal, you give a pretty good description. This is also my view of things. The whole nudity thing is mentioned and by that alone basically was like porn back in the day when it was written!
The story and the wording has to be seen in historical context and for that it is quite pulp!
The fact that it still can be read as "erotically inspring" 100 years after it's initial writing shows kind of how far ahead ERB was in some ways.

It is actually nice that anybody can paint the Barsoom and it's people in his own mind, without having too detailed descriptions. This is firing fantasy in the reader. ERB gives a lot of rough sketches which you can fill out in your mind.
The violence as well as the beauty of the people and how they had sex maybe... and well, they lay eggs. I wonder, how a man in the 1910s would have thought about such things.

Read the original books, comichero, then you will understand.
It is a voyage in time in more than one way.

[positronic]

Agree with everything said here. It's worth noting that the adventure pulps had an overwhelmingly male audience. There were very, very few female heroes to be found anywhere in the pulps -- a situation that began to change somewhat in the mid-to-late 40s, primarily because of the work of female writers like Catherine L. Moore and Leigh Brackett. Domino Lady was an exception, but those stories were printed in the "spicy" pulps, and meant to tittilate men with their sexual innuendo (none of that in Burroughs, although the implied threat of rape often rears its ugly head in order to paint the villains as particularly nasty). You might think at first glance that Thuvia, Maid of Mars or Llana of Gathol were Burroughs novels that featured female heroes, but actually the real heroes of those stories are Carthoris and Gahan, respectively.

[Ralok]

I would also like to respond to your questions, not because I disagree with Ralok, but because my answers may give you a different perspective. Remember that ERB was born in 1875 and wrote about Barsoom beginning in 1912, so his ideas of women's roles in society were taken from that period. The Barsoom series was essentially his Victorian knights and damsels series, as opposed to his other cultures (African jungle, prehistoric cavemen, etc). Dejah Thoris was a princess, and had all the attitudes that title conveyed, with none of the stereotypical vices. She was very down-to-earth and courageous, ethically speaking, and very smart. Smarter than John Carter, I believe. I don't remember her ever picking up a sword, however. Most women carried a dagger somewhere in the female harness they wore.

The first time John Carter sees Dejah Thoris, she has no clothes on whatsoever, and stays like this without any sort of commentary for quite some time. In the first book, she even remarks that Earth people wear scraps of cloth, which she does not understand. She is also extremely beautiful. These two characteristics have fired artists' imaginations for decades, and you can Google her to see what I mean. She does wear the royal version of the female harness, though, especially for official functions. Even though men and women in that society wear next to nothing, there is no direct mention of sex, and nudity plays no role as a plot device in the stories. Women are generally characterized as willing to take their own lives rather than be raped.

As far as the violence, I always got the idea that Burroughs considered that Mars, being the god of war, would be a planet filled with fighting. Everyone is fighting. John Carter loves to fight, but there is so much of it that he becomes a peacemaker there. I always found it fun that whenever John Carter gets the drop on someone else, (being the hero) he says "do not fight and you can leave in peace", or something similar. No one ever takes his offer...no matter what the odds, they always attack with no fear of death. This provided an avenue for Burroughs to show how good a swordsman John Carter was, and most of the fights were done with swords, as gunfire was deemed to be unmanly in personal duels.

Hope this gives you a more comprehensive idea of the characters and the setting. I've been reading those books off and on for almost 40 years, and I never get tired of them. If you can find them, I recommend getting the 1970's book club editions with the Frazetta illustrations. As far as comics go, DE far exceeds any previous version in my opinion.

that is essentially what I was trying to say but you definitely put it more eloquently than I did!

[comichero]

thank you everyone for the amazing post here. It is nice to know that when someone gains a thirst for knowledge, there are enuff people here to get them in the right direction. You guys have helped me get a start to knowing what ERB was about in his writings, and that is good for me. This world of the warlord of mars is very new to me, i can't wait to jump in. any suggestions on which book to start with?

[transversal]

To avoid confusion, its really best to read them in order. "A Princess of Mars" is the first one. That story is continued in "The Gods of Mars" and "The Warlord of Mars".

[comichero]

To avoid confusion, its really best to read them in order. "A Princess of Mars" is the first one. That story is continued in "The Gods of Mars" and "The Warlord of Mars".

thanks Transversal that will get me going!

[comichero]

To avoid confusion, its really best to read them in order. "A Princess of Mars" is the first one. That story is continued in "The Gods of Mars" and "The Warlord of Mars".

I am going to download them to my nook, I did read some reviews that said I should not download the free ones, because they are filled with errors and somethings are left out of the stories. Does anyone know if that is true?

[transversal]

I've got the one called "The Martian Tales Trilogy:...", and it's good, and allows word searches, etc. I don't think it was free. I did look at one free version which looked like someone did a bad scan job, though.

[comichero]

Got the down load 1st five books to my Nuk, and began reading them, MAN! ERB was way ahead of his time on writing these books. I can not believe he came up with this when he did. Why on earth can people not come up with such original ideas today I wonder?

[Ralok]

Got the down load 1st five books to my Nuk, and began reading them, MAN! ERB was way ahead of his time on writing these books. I can not believe he came up with this when he did. Why on earth can people not come up with such original ideas today I wonder?

Because ERB took them all XD

[positronic]

It's hard to be original when all the original ideas have been taken. Doubly so for science fiction. I think the last time I saw a new one was when William Gibson, Bruce Sterling, and that bunch came up with Cyberpunk in the 1980s. Yeah, sometimes new ideas can get stale pretty fast, too. But there's nothing wrong with old ideas done well, either.

[comixfan1980]

Yeah, I've heard things about Dejah not being a huge character in the source material and that he role in DE's WoM books is much bigger and better than the role she had in the original books. I think it's cool that the DE creative team saw something in her and felt she could be a huge asset to their storytelling, she's become one of my favorite female characters in comics and I am a full fledged WoM fan because her story has been pretty phenomenal and it's helped to pull me in.