Lord of the Jungle issue #4

[manga4life]

Anybody check this one out yet? It looks like Jane is getting really close to Tarzan and seems to fancy him over Clayton, also.....I just can't get over how damn hot Castro pencils Jane! My gosh, I think she's probably the hottest chick in comics right now from a visual stance, I'd even put her above J. Scott Campbell's Dejah Thoris covers, lol.

Any which way, this was a great issue and the ending left me on a total cliffhanger for issue #5 the way Paul D'arnot was left hanging by all of those wild ape men. I seriously CANNOT wait for issue #5!

[positronic]

This is starting to stray a little further from the source material now. There was a reference in one panel to the man-apes having come from "up out of the earth" that made me wonder if this wasn't a reference to Pellucidar. Burroughs, of course, hadn't yet created the Pellucidar novels when Tarzan of the Apes was first published. Perhaps setting up a future plotline?

[comixfan1980]

I read this last Friday when I got my copy and I really liked it, especially the interaction between Jane and Tarzan when she realized he was "White Skin", Esmerelda was right! LoL.

Great issue, exciting ending too.

[Comic2read]

This is one of my favorite comics.

Jane is drawn fantastic. Hope they plan to make her a leopard bikini Jungle Girl.

[Ralok]

first off . . . the comics repair a MAJOR plot-hole that ERB had with the first book, one that has bugged me for years!

I dont think it is straying from the source material too bad,

there was a lot of uncomfortable strange racism in the book, and the ape-men here are replacing black-folk to avoid that racism

but I feel it is odd that they woul say "from out of the earth" or whatever

as in teh second book (which is practically the first book expanded) there ARE ape-men in the city of opar, and it isnt even that distant from the current location in the book.

I mean . . . it is not even a weeks walk, they could easily be oparian primitive males

so the pellucidar hint I find a bit odd, but not unwelcome

[manga4life]

I'm actually okay with Dynamite straying from source material when it comes to all their books, I'd personally rather read something fresh and original than read something I've already been reading for years. But honestly, I've never given 2 shakes about Tarzan in the past and Dynamite's comic is my only exposure to the character and so far I'm loving it, to me......this IS Tarzan through and through and I have NO interest in visiting older works based on the character.

[TheReader]

I concur!

Dynamite's LOTJ series rocks hard and this is the BEST version of Tarzan I've ever been a part of, keep it up Dynamite!

Also, Jane is super duper hooooooooooot, lot's of good booty shots lol, she needs a sexy cover IMO!

[positronic]

Er, what major plot-hole are we talking about now?

Regarding charges of racism, this has been debated for years. On the one hand, ERB was a product of his times. It's hard to find ANY example of black people portrayed in the pulps (at least the early ones) that isn't tinged with racism in some respect. This stereotyping persisted in both comic books and movies well into the 1950s. It's true that Tarzan at first views the black tribesmen with suspicion and even outright hatred. But on the other hand, he was raised by apes and knew nothing of human society, and one of the first black men he encountered killed his ape foster mother! In later books, Tarzan still doesn't have a very high regard for humanity in general (Jane and D'Arnot excepted), but he often ran afoul of some of its worst examples. Then again, of the few recurring characters in the books, Tarzan befriends and becomes chief of the Waziri tribe, whom he obviously respects, and it's fair to say he regards them more highly than humankind in general.

Later comic adaptations of Tarzan seemed (to me) to excise most of the racist aspects present in the novels. Perhaps the most insulting adaptation (although a very good one in most other respects) was the Filmation animated series Tarzan, Lord of the Jungle that managed to produce two seasons of a show set in Africa in which no black Africans appeared (!), thus proving that you can take the "avoiding the racist aspects" angle too far. I certainly hope DE's LotJ doesn't intend to convince us that Tarzan never manages to run into any black tribesmen in the whole of his adventuring in Africa.

When dealing with historical fiction, it's tempting to try to apply modern sensibilities to cultural attitudes of the past to avoid offending people, but often what you end up with is a product completely divorced from historical reality, like the movie version of The Wild Wild West.

[comixfan1980]

The only racism I got out of issue #4 was when they called the cook a "Negress", but that's a whole lot better than referring to her a "Black Skin", or something along the lines like that. I thought it was done fairly tastefully.

[positronic]

Ralok was referring to the fact that Esmeralda, in ERB's book, was a far more stereotyped depiction of a black character, and the fact that LotJ has replaced ERB's racially stereotyped depiction of African tribesmen with a race of fantasy man-apes. On average, however, over the course of ERB's series, I find that black characters probably get better treatment than they did in many other pulp stories of the time.

[Ralok]

Er, what major plot-hole are we talking about now?

Regarding charges of racism, this has been debated for years. On the one hand, ERB was a product of his times. It's hard to find ANY example of black people portrayed in the pulps (at least the early ones) that isn't tinged with racism in some respect. This stereotyping persisted in both comic books and movies well into the 1950s. It's true that Tarzan at first views the black tribesmen with suspicion and even outright hatred. But on the other hand, he was raised by apes and knew nothing of human society, and one of the first black men he encountered killed his ape foster mother! In later books, Tarzan still doesn't have a very high regard for humanity in general (Jane and D'Arnot excepted), but he often ran afoul of some of its worst examples. Then again, of the few recurring characters in the books, Tarzan befriends and becomes chief of the Waziri tribe, whom he obviously respects, and it's fair to say he regards them more highly than humankind in general.

Later comic adaptations of Tarzan seemed (to me) to excise most of the racist aspects present in the novels. Perhaps the most insulting adaptation (although a very good one in most other respects) was the Filmation animated series Tarzan, Lord of the Jungle that managed to produce two seasons of a show set in Africa in which no black Africans appeared (!), thus proving that you can take the "avoiding the racist aspects" angle too far. I certainly hope DE's LotJ doesn't intend to convince us that Tarzan never manages to run into any black tribesmen in the whole of his adventuring in Africa.

When dealing with historical fiction, it's tempting to try to apply modern sensibilities to cultural attitudes of the past to avoid offending people, but often what you end up with is a product completely divorced from historical reality, like the movie version of The Wild Wild West.

I am talking about the plothole about Tarzans name

in the book he writes "Tarzan" on the note on the door, but he had no way of knowing that the sounds in his name corresponded to letters, but he did know that his name meant "White Skin" so logically he would have wrote white skin on the note . . . but he didnt.

it was a huuuuuuuuuuuge plothole in the book

for now I am okay with them using ape-men to replace afrricans (whether they are from opar or pellucidar, although opar is a bit closer), but having no black folk appear ever would be very very very very weird.

[Ralok]

Ralok was referring to the fact that Esmeralda, in ERB's book, was a far more stereotyped depiction of a black character, and the fact that LotJ has replaced ERB's racially stereotyped depiction of African tribesmen with a race of fantasy man-apes. On average, however, over the course of ERB's series, I find that black characters probably get better treatment than they did in many other pulp stories of the time.

I am going to agree with this assessment, the depiction of them was . . . cartoonish almost in the first book and a half . . . somewhere in the second book it feels like ERB said "I cant keep this up anymore"

of course he still place an odd emphasis on physical traits vs skin color, it wasnt about skin color . . .

Please dont take this as any accusation of racism on my part

But ERB described them as increasingly more ape-like, the more savage and unintelligent the people were, and what I mean is he used the word "Ape" in the description of them > _ >

very awkward to read in the 21st century

Interestingly though, this wasnt about skin color it seemed . . . because the people of opar, they have white skin. The males of their races are practically apes (females normal Caucasians I guess)

I dont know if this was typical for the day, but it seems that it was to him about "how they were shaped" not "the color of their skin"

I . . . dont know what to think about it of course > _> It gets less and less with each tarzan book it seems

this was the reason I never believed that the Black Men of barsoom ever resembled earth africans, ERB was definitely NOT shy in his description of people of African descent, and none of the terms or ways he described them are present in the barsoom books in regards to the First Born.

I am going to drop the whole "racism thing" now, because it is really uncomfortable to talk about . . . . really really uncomfortable

Only one last thought, I think dynamite is handling it as well as can be expected

[positronic]

I am talking about the plothole about Tarzans name

in the book he writes "Tarzan" on the note on the door, but he had no way of knowing that the sounds in his name corresponded to letters, but he did know that his name meant "White Skin" so logically he would have wrote white skin on the note . . . but he didnt.

it was a huuuuuuuuuuuge plothole in the book

Given the framework of the story, where the ERB character tells us at the beginning that he is relating a true story in fictionalized form, he explains that he has simplified some things for the purpose of the reader and changed some things to protect Tarzan's true identity. Thus "Lord Greystoke" isn't really Lord Greystoke, etc. "The names have been changed to protect the innocent", etc. Since he's already explained to the reader the origin of the Tarzan name, I give him a pass as simplifying the written note left by Tarzan as just making things clearer for the reader. Of course this whole idea of "fiction based on a true story" led Philip Jose Farmer to write Tarzan Alive.

Where the plot-holes get really big is starting with the time frame in The Son of Tarzan.

[Ralok]

Given the framework of the story, where the ERB character tells us at the beginning that he is relating a true story in fictionalized form, he explains that he has simplified some things for the purpose of the reader and changed some things to protect Tarzan's true identity. Thus "Lord Greystoke" isn't really Lord Greystoke, etc. "The names have been changed to protect the innocent", etc. Since he's already explained to the reader the origin of the Tarzan name, I give him a pass as simplifying the written note left by Tarzan as just making things clearer for the reader. Of course this whole idea of "fiction based on a true story" led Philip Jose Farmer to write Tarzan Alive.

Where the plot-holes get really big is starting with the time frame in The Son of Tarzan.

I can imagine with as many tarzan books as he wrote that there are a whooooooooole bunch of plot-holes . . . probably even power rangers level plot-holes!!

I have noticed a few others but the only one taht has bugged me is the one concerning the note.

[Britt68]

Generally, I liked this issue. I like the developing relationship between Tarzan and Jane, and the introduction of the french sailors. Just how brutual the apes behave is now starting to come to light. It is shaping up to be an intense coming. Also like the art and brilliant colors on it.

I was kind of confused about Tarzan telling Jane he is white skin while he told Clayton he wasnt. Only thing I can figure out was that Clayton was talking to Tarzan while Jane was writing. Tarzan only speaks ape.

I was caught off gaurd by the opening pages with the depiction of cannabilism aboard the Arrow. At first, I thought that maybe this was a stranded ship and the apes attacked it. But then I realized this ship was stranded at sea. Apes dont like water and have no way to get out there. So I am back to cannabilism and wondering how that fits in. If it was just for shock value, then I would prefer they skip it.

[positronic]

I was kind of confused about Tarzan telling Jane he is white skin while he told Clayton he wasnt. Only thing I can figure out was that Clayton was talking to Tarzan while Jane was writing. Tarzan only speaks ape.

To clarify, the SOUNDS of the English language words "white skin" are meaningless to Tarzan. On the other hand, he taught himself to read and write English, and he writes his own name according to its meaning in ape language as "white skin".