I know I am probably in the minority but. . . Shadow and Spider

[BatHobbit]

Here goes:

I usually wait for the trades but I had to cheat and pick up an issue of Shadow. To be honest I was disappointed. I am one of those who likes his heroes to be Heroic and the shadow often comes across as no better than the people he is fighting. Reading online I found that the Spider is being written the same way. Now I find myself thinking it would have been better if one of dynamite's fedora wearing noir heroes (ideally shadow) got portrayed in a more positive/heroic way. I know in a few interpretations the shadow kills and that is not even the issue for me. What I don't like is how he comes across as borderline psychotic. I will probably get flak for saying I was hoping for a version more in line with the Alec Baldwin film where he still fights and even uses guns but still comes across as a good guy. Even in the original radio serials the Shadow was not such a violent character.

I cannot speak to the Spider because I have no prior knowledge of the character but since dynamite is doing both books at once would it not make sense to differentiate by making one more heroic and the other more anti heroic.

Oh well, I guess I will wait for Mandrake and hope that he lives up to my expectations.

[TheMicrozone]

While the Shadow was always rather bland on the radio (more drawing room mystery than vigilante hero), neither character has ever that sort of boy scout hero in the pulps, or in any of the previous comic adaptions. The Spider was even less "boy scout"-ish than the Shadow. He was a proto-Batman and Punisher type hero, and has been since his third pulp novel in 1933. Dynamite would have been foolish to change either of them drastically from what made them popular to audiences at the time or to readers since who still clamor for reprints of their pulp novels.

Given how the two biggest "boy scout" heroes out there, Captain America and Superman, both needed drastic revamps away from that image to even sell to modern readers, Dynamite would have been double foolish in that sort or revamp. It'd be like going to the trouble of getting the Voltron license and only using the vehicle team (or WORSE the THIRD Voltron team than never made it to American TV), when that's not what V-fans want.

[positronic]

I didn't get "borderline psychotic" from The Shadow. That may be a legitimate assessment of The Spider, though. On the other hand, as with The Punisher, there's never any question that these criminals would kill our protagonist in a heartbeat if they could, and The Shadow isn't going to weep any crocodile tears over blowing them away. He doesn't take any particular sadistic thrill out of killing them, either. It can also be said that the "borderline psychotic" thing is exactly what makes The Spider interesting to his fans.

[manga4life]

Wow, someone who was actually disappointed by The Shadow....this is the first I've read of someone who didn't enjoy it. I guess it just goes to show that you can't please everyone, but you never know, maybe the next story arc will hook you in once things are established? Any which way, I love the book and find both The Shadow and The Spider to be some of the beck kick-off issues I've read in quite some time and I definitely plan on sticking with them.

[BatHobbit]

I will probably still pick up The Shadow trade as I have been a fan of the character since I was a kid and I used to listen to tapes of the radio drama that my grandparents had. I am not asking for him to be a boy scout (though I do believe there is a place and a real need for that kind of hero) and I am not even saying he shouldn't be allowed to kill but even darker heroes like Batman stop short of mass murder.

I also still believe that since Dynamite is doing both books it would make sense to differentiate them by making one hero (again I would prefer shadow) to be a little more heroic. Again I know I am in the minority and most people today probably want their heroes to be more gray and more willing to kill even if that is not the only option but. . . is that really a "heroic" thing to do?

[tony ingram]

I will probably still pick up The Shadow trade as I have been a fan of the character since I was a kid and I used to listen to tapes of the radio drama that my grandparents had. I am not asking for him to be a boy scout (though I do believe there is a place and a real need for that kind of hero) and I am not even saying he shouldn't be allowed to kill but even darker heroes like Batman stop short of mass murder.

I also still believe that since Dynamite is doing both books it would make sense to differentiate them by making one hero (again I would prefer shadow) to be a little more heroic. Again I know I am in the minority and most people today probably want their heroes to be more gray and more willing to kill even if that is not the only option but. . . is that really a "heroic" thing to do?Whether or not it's the heroic thing to do, it's what the Shadow does. Take away that edge and you might as well just create a new character, I think.

[Tulku]

I know in a few interpretations the shadow kills and that is not even the issue for me. What I don't like is how he comes across as borderline psychotic. I will probably get flak for saying I was hoping for a version more in line with the Alec Baldwin film where he still fights and even uses guns but still comes across as a good guy. Even in the original radio serials the Shadow was not such a violent character.

I think we touched on this on another thread. One of the difficulties with the Shadow is that he has been portrayed in different ways in different media over the years. The Baldwin film portrayed him one way, with some magical powers. Prior comic book versions portrayed him another way. The "original" radio shows portrayed him another way, with an uncanny hypnotic power to cloud minds. And the even more original pulp novels gave him no mystic powers at all--he simply dressed in black and hung around in the...Shadows. (Think ninja.). The pulp character used guns freely to kill wrongdoers, but he was not psychotic about it. He was very clinical and controlled. The radio character seldom used a gun at all. Baldwin used both gun and supernatural powers.

The trouble is that all those versions have their fans who think that that is the way that the Shadow should be. DE's version is trying to satisfy as many as possible. I prefer the pulp novel version but I am willing to tolerate the more mystical overtones that DE is adding to the character because I understand that others are looking for that. Besides, if I want "my" version of the Shadow, I can always have it--I just have to read the novels again. If you want your version, you just need to call up a recording of the radio show. And we both can enjoy DE's version for what it is--DE's version.

[BatHobbit]

Tulku I like your approach. Yes I liked the original radio show but I have to admit the Baldwin film is my favorite because it was more action oriented. I do like that the DE version is including the mystic stuff as well as the guns. I guess this Shadow could be considered a "greatest hits" version of the character.

I will keep reading, who knows, perhaps his journey from anti hero to something more noble is the tale being told. If not. . . it won't be the last telling of the story and it IS a worthy addition to the canon.

[positronic]

Great summation, Tulku. The comics and the movies have always had the ungainly task of trying to reconcile the essentially irreconcilable differences between the Shadow novels (because in comics and on film, we need to see that hawk-nosed, slouch-hatted, black-clad image from the pulp covers) and the mind-clouding, invisible Shadow of the radio show (where he was never seen, either by the audience or the characters in the show -- only his microphone-filtered, mocking laugh was heard).

Some days I feel like the Fighting Yank too.