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Thread: Astro City

  1. #11
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    leonmallett
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    Originally Posted by pulphero
    To be honest, I don't know that there's any particular reason for DE to segregate these characters into miniseries which identify groups of characters according to their former publishers. 99% of the readers (and potential readers) have no awareness of who published what, 70 years ago. There was a little bit of that going on in PSP Chapters 1 and 2, with various cliques among the general throng, but I see no sense in limiting the potential team-ups to only those characters which once shared the same publisher in the 1940s. Now they ALL share the same publisher.
    Could not agree more. The point is telling stories framed in the 'now', not wholly framed by the past.


    Well, let me ask you: Do you think that DE's approach of returning the Golden Age super-heroes to the present was successful.??

    If you do, then maybe you miss my point. (And we have little to discuss.)

    I'm of the opinion that PSP wasn't a successful approach to their return.

    One of the points that failed their return (to me) was the fact that the readers didn't REALLY know these heroes and did not invest enough interest in the title to keep reading the books.

    Compare the character development of the PSP heroes to the character development of the early (first 100 issues of) FANTASTIC FOUR, Peter Parker-SPIDERMAN, IRONMAN, X-MEN, etc.)

    CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT would be KEY to those many readers that quit PSP.

    Had I not LOVED the Golden Age heroes of PSP ---I would have stopped buying that title.

    By breaking up these heroes into their (let's call it) "brand groups" --- you could accomplish a number of things.
    And you could give a number of creators a chance at a group of heroes they would like to play with.
    The most successful creative team could get their group going as a monthly.... for one.

    For another, --- to me, it matters GREATLY that they are not thrown into one pot, and stirred in together with other heroes that they have NO historical relevance to. Especially when we, and the current readers of today, don't know who the heck is who.

    The point of playing these characters off against their world is at the basis of who they are.

    I was excited to see Daredevil, The Claw, The Ghost, and Silver Streak in the story together, It was one of the things that I thought they were doing "right".

    I loved the Ross picture of the ACE heroes sitting around a table --JLA style. I loved it. And the story where they all came back together. They were created to be together. Geeesh. Some of them had teamed up on the covers of 4 FAVORITES.

    And that cover with SKYMAN, THE FACE, and MARVELO.... was magic to my Golden Age -loving eye balls.

    And that GHOST cover with his plane. Holy-crap!!!


    (Where is Positronics??)

    ...............................

    What direction would you chart for our heroes at this point??

    I would be interested in what you two would "stir up".!!
    Last edited by magnoanddavey; 08-11-2013 at 08:54 PM.

  2. #12
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    A lot of those little groups of characters commonly appeared on various Golden Age comic book COVERS, but actual stories in which they teamed up are relatively few and far between. We tend to forget that, since we see the covers so often, and the stories within are reprinted so seldom. It seems that just about every Golden Age publisher had its own title equivalent to Timely's ALL WINNERS or DC's WORLD'S FINEST, in which the publisher's most popular characters appeared in individual features, but only interacted with each other on the cover, in a scene which never took place in any of the stories within.
    Last edited by pulphero; 08-13-2013 at 01:40 PM.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnoanddavey View Post
    To be honest, I don't know that there's any particular reason for DE to segregate these characters into miniseries which identify groups of characters according to their former publishers. 99% of the readers (and potential readers) have no awareness of who published what, 70 years ago. There was a little bit of that going on in PSP Chapters 1 and 2, with various cliques among the general throng, but I see no sense in limiting the potential team-ups to only those characters which once shared the same publisher in the 1940s. Now they ALL share the same publisher.
    Could not agree more. The point is telling stories framed in the 'now', not wholly framed by the past.

    Well, let me ask you: Do you think that DE's approach of returning the Golden Age super-heroes to the present was successful.??

    If you do, then maybe you miss my point. (And we have little to discuss.)

    I'm of the opinion that PSP wasn't a successful approach to their return.

    One of the points that failed their return (to me) was the fact that the readers didn't REALLY know these heroes and did not invest enough interest in the title to keep reading the books.

    Compare the character development of the PSP heroes to the character development of the early (first 100 issues of) FANTASTIC FOUR, Peter Parker-SPIDERMAN, IRONMAN, X-MEN, etc.)

    CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT would be KEY to those many readers that quit PSP.

    Had I not LOVED the Golden Age heroes of PSP ---I would have stopped buying that title.

    By breaking up these heroes into their (let's call it) "brand groups" --- you could accomplish a number of things.
    And you could give a number of creators a chance at a group of heroes they would like to play with.
    The most successful creative team could get their group going as a monthly.... for one.

    For another, --- to me, it matters GREATLY that they are not thrown into one pot, and stirred in together with other heroes that they have NO historical relevance to. Especially when we, and the current readers of today, don't know who the heck is who.

    The point of playing these characters off against their world is at the basis of who they are.

    I was excited to see Daredevil, The Claw, The Ghost, and Silver Streak in the story together, It was one of the things that I thought they were doing "right".

    I loved the Ross picture of the ACE heroes sitting around a table --JLA style. I loved it. And the story where they all came back together. They were created to be together. Geeesh. Some of them had teamed up on the covers of 4 FAVORITES.

    And that cover with SKYMAN, THE FACE, and MARVELO.... was magic to my Golden Age -loving eye balls.

    And that GHOST cover with his plane. Holy-crap!!!


    (Where is Positronics??)

    ...............................

    What direction would you chart for our heroes at this point??

    I would be interested in what you two would "stir up".!!
    That DE has not been successful with a property launched amid 113K opening issue sales is not proof that had it segregated its characters by publisher stable that it would have been successful.

    Just because 'A' struggled or even failed, does not mean 'B' would have been an automatic success.

    No, I would argue that the problems were more in DE's delivery; ever-lengthening times between issues simply does not encourage readers to stay. Taking story and series structure problems out of the mix (not denying them, just saying they are not the only problem), the biggest problem was, I think, the fact that the readership could never be sure when the next issue would arrive.

    But flooding even more characters into prominence along the lines of publishing houses, well that overlooks that the lightning in a bottle magic that allows a character to breakout won't work in a rigid approach like that. DE struggled to publish more than 2-3 concurrent PSP books, why would they look at more concurrently. And if following a rigid publishing-house based model (well why bother since very few readers will care of the historical legacy I would wager), you end up cycling through sets of characters and leaving them.

    To assume readers will be put off because they are not in the correct groupings of characters seems a mighty big assumption. I really fail to see any valid back-up to say that such an approach can or automatically would work, sorry to say.

    It appears you are equating lack of success with the fact the characters did not appear as you wanted, when in fact many other factors were likely in play.
    Last edited by leonmallett; 08-14-2013 at 03:31 PM.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnoanddavey View Post

    What direction would you chart for our heroes at this point??

    I would be interested in what you two would "stir up".!!
    I don't say your scheme is completely unworkable, but it seems overly ambitious, and the appeal of the 'brands' is only going to impact the awareness of a relatively small percentage of the readership (even smaller if you're considering the 'potential' readership).

    I think DE is probably going to stick with the plan they seem to be using with THE OWL. Slowly roll out a number of different trial-run miniseries, each focusing on one to three characters at most, and then gauge by sales what direction the overall 'universe' should go in.

    It's possible DE still has some master plan involving a 'Chapter 3' (whether or not they'll actually market it as that) under the PSP logo, but are waiting to snare a high-profile writer to help sell a relaunch.

  5. #15
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    Default Stories told from those 1940-Golden Age covers!!

    Quote Originally Posted by pulphero View Post
    A lot of those little groups of characters commonly appeared on various Golden Age comic book COVERS, but actual stories in which they teamed up are relatively few and far between. We tend to forget that, since we see the covers so often, and the stories within are reprinted so seldom. It seems that just about every Golden Age publisher had its own title equivalent to Timely's ALL WINNERS or DC's WORLD'S FINEST, in which the publisher's most popular characters appeared in individual features, but only interacted with each other on the cover, in a scene which never took place in any of the stories within.
    Yes, you're right. But those covers and "possible stories" certainly are fertile ground for some future great stories FROM the past. (Which, again, I would love to see.)
    Last edited by magnoanddavey; 08-17-2013 at 10:19 PM.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by leonmallett View Post
    That DE has not been successful with a property launched amid 113K opening issue sales is not proof that had it segregated its characters by publisher stable that it would have been successful.

    Nope. Didn't mean or think that.

    Just because 'A' struggled or even failed, does not mean 'B' would have been an automatic success.

    Didn't think that to be so, either.

    No, I would argue that the problems were more in DE's delivery; ever-lengthening times between issues simply does not encourage readers to stay. Taking story and series structure problems out of the mix (not denying them, just saying they are not the only problem), the biggest problem was, I think, the fact that the readership could never be sure when the next issue would arrive.

    But flooding even more characters into prominence along the lines of publishing houses, well that overlooks that the lightning in a bottle magic that allows a character to breakout won't work in a rigid approach like that. DE struggled to publish more than 2-3 concurrent PSP books, why would they look at more concurrently. And if following a rigid publishing-house based model (well why bother since very few readers will care of the historical legacy I would wager), you end up cycling through sets of characters and leaving them.

    Didn't think of "flooding" even more characters into prominence....and I'm not sure about "concurrently"....



    To assume readers will be put off because they are not in the correct groupings of characters seems a mighty big assumption. I really fail to see any valid back-up to say that such an approach can or automatically would work, sorry to say.

    I'm not assuming that they will be put off. I just stated that it was meaningful to me.

    It appears you are equating lack of success with the fact the characters did not appear as you wanted, when in fact many other factors were likely in play.
    Yeap, there certainly were many other factors in play.... and I wasn't equating PSP's lack of success with the fact the characters did not appear as I wanted. In many cases they DID appear like I wanted.
    I think you missed my points.

    But what is your suggestion to make PSP successful.???

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by pulphero View Post
    I don't say your scheme is completely unworkable, but it seems overly ambitious, and the appeal of the 'brands' is only going to impact the awareness of a relatively small percentage of the readership (even smaller if you're considering the 'potential' readership).

    I think DE is probably going to stick with the plan they seem to be using with THE OWL. Slowly roll out a number of different trial-run miniseries, each focusing on one to three characters at most, and then gauge by sales what direction the overall 'universe' should go in.

    It's possible DE still has some master plan involving a 'Chapter 3' (whether or not they'll actually market it as that) under the PSP logo, but are waiting to snare a high-profile writer to help sell a relaunch.
    That would be great.

    Yes, that seems to be their plan: to roll out the heroes slowly... for trial run mini-series...like THE OWL.

    p.s. It would be nice if they bring back .....Magno and Davey. O.k. O.K. I'm kinda kidding. (Not really.) And all of the Ace characters. Lash Lightning, Lightning Girl, The Raven, Soldier Unknown, and the others. Hey, I'm a dreamer.
    And a comic book fan who likes "groups" of heroes from the past.

    I would love to see these Golden Age Heroes "back in action", again.

    Not just the Ace heroes.... but everyone from PSP.

    DE had a great idea. And had poor execution.!!

    What are your ideas to make the return of the Golden Age Heroes work??
    Come on, help DE out, here.

    You can't believe MY idea is the BEST IDEA !!!??

    Soooooo, where are you guys with the better idea.?? I can take it. Believe me, I can take it. I just throw out ideas that would make ME buy the comics. The inter-play between Silver Streak and Daredevil would be a GREAT thing to me. And thrown in The Ghost ....against THE CLAW would be GREATER.

    Just like I'd like to have CRIMEBUSTER and IRON JAW thrown into the mix.

    That's the kind of stuff I dream of. Of course, a great writer and an artist that could protray these heroes as they should be--- would be key.

    Maybe you're happy with what DE is doing.!? Rolling out the heroes one at a time....to see if they can be successful.

    I'm still sticking by my purposed groups. Although I'm certainly not against releasing the heroes one at a time.

    What would you rather see: Daredevil in a six issue series... or
    Daredevil, The Ghost, and Silverstreak in an adventure against THE CLAW??

    Then, spin one or more of the heroes out on his own.???

    What is your suggestion to get these guys back on the stands.
    Last edited by magnoanddavey; 09-01-2013 at 10:33 PM.

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