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On Trainwrecks, Realism, and the Picking of Nits...

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  • #31
    Its all cool

    Hey Kevin I hear your points and there all valid . I hope your enjoyment of the comic has lessened though because there is a lot of good stuff happening in LR. Just to clarify I only mentioned superhero comics because they have been the giant genre in the biz until the adventure fantasy revival recently (still waiting on Romance and Mystery to come back though). From Homer to Walt Gibson the fantastic or the outstandingly extraordinary has always been there even in your examples. But weighing the good stuff against the bad you'll find the good stuff easily outweighs the bad. When has reading a comic been like reading a novel not just a good comics story. And by novel I mean all the literary elements from symbolism to foreshadowing mostly implied if not subtly stated which gives LR re-readability. And theres something new every time.

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    • #32
      I won't drop the book unless it gets stupid ;D so far I don't see that happening. (it takes a lot for me to drop a book. For instance, I stuck through Devin Grayson's run on Nightwing only to drop it on Bruce Jones).

      I just want the writer or artist or whomever to keep realism in mind for future issues, because realism is what Lone Ranger and Zorro thrive upon.

      To tell you the truth I am getting so sickened and fed up with Marvel and DC right now that I only get Excalibur (because, well, there's a bit of realism to ground it, and in general it's alright), Deadpool and Cable trades (because they make fun of superheroes), and whatever Alex Ross is doing (I love his artwork).


      I hope I don't sound harsh on LR. I like LR, I just don't want it to really slip from the roots of realism which help sustain him. I also made the post with Zorro half-in mind. Hoping that the message that "Realism doesn't suck in a comic. Realism helps to create a broad grounding base from where you can expound on their very human abilities that make them heroes".

      Anyway I hope this makes sense to yall.


      You know something I didn't mention before, but Don Rosa, the second most popular Donald Duck/Scrooge McDuck writer of all time -- he went to extremes to do research on each of the areas which his stories centered. He brought a strong sense of realism into the Duck Comics and it worked like a charm. So Realism can be a great benefit to the story telling you can't find anywhere else



      PS: I do really like LR


      PPS: oh and it'd be helpful if there were time passage markers in LR
      Last edited by Kevin; 06-25-2007, 12:39 AM.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Kevin
        Comic book or not some real life physics has to follow these characters.
        Key word being some, but not all real life physics needs to follow these characters.

        At least not for me. None of the slightly wonky physics or extranormal actions bothered me in this issue, I loved seeing Tonto shatter the pistol (and it looked liked some old vintage pistol anyway, he even suggests it when he says “I loved that damn gun”) Then switches to his “new” one.
        Or the incredible distances traveled, or the Ranger shooting the lever to derail the last two cars, and the caboose flipping end-over-end, without derailing the rest of the train. So what? It looked great! Loved seeing it, it just ads to the visual drama. I came in expecting to suspend some disbelief, and I personally hope to see more of it in Zorro as well, otherwise why bother.
        Nobody is talking about flying, walking through walls or shooting laser beams out of their eyes here, but they should be allowed some measure of the fantastic!
        I need to see LR make some impossible shots.


        As far as Bart potentially surviving (at leas long enough to have mailed the telegram) That is how I interpreted it too. He did survive at least that long.
        I don’t buy that he could have sent the telegram before the showdown. For one, as Cindy pointed out his motivation. This was not a guy that was planning to loose, which that Telegram would imply he was, if it was sent before the fight.
        And two, the telegram specifically references the money, “keep your money” His whole motivation was the money. Why would he forgo the money before he’d even had a chance to face off with the lone ranger? He had no reason to think he would loose.

        I also don’t buy that Reid would have sent the Telegram after Bart’s death either, as again it references the money, why would Reid care to announce that Bart had forgone the money?.
        The telegram says, “Keep your money. He’s coming’ for you.”
        All Reid would have needed Cavendish to know is that “I’m coming for you.”

        Having said that, Reid leaving this cold-blooded killer free makes absolutely no sense. And neither did him accepting his guns as some kind of token or symbol of honor between them. WTF?
        Last edited by Guicho; 07-14-2007, 08:35 PM.

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        • #34
          I think if Bart did survive that he may have reformed in the process. He saw that Reid could take more hate than Bart had dealt with and still show compassion. I think Tonto aided quite a bit in that lesson.

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          • #35
            I agree, Bart may be a completely changed man after his encounter with Reid and Tonto (and I don’t just mean physically ). And the Telegram seems to confirm it. It still does not explain why Reid would allow him to go free.
            I think they just assumed he would die, and underestimated his will.
            But considering this guy would not have even blinked while shooting Reid’s brother’s wife and kid, that’s makes the ending somewhat shoddy.
            Not to mention Tonto ridiculously banking on his own telegram somehow diverting Bart away from killing the brother’s wife and kid as well. That made no sense.
            None of the physics bothered me, but this story had some serious problems with character motivation intent and plot.

            Changed man or not, what bugs me about Bart somehow surviving to go free, is not the physics of it, but what it says about Reid and Tonto who allowed it
            Last edited by Guicho; 07-14-2007, 09:11 PM.

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            • #36
              Bart's freedom

              I'm leaning toward them assuming Bart would die. It occured to me before as well, that arresting him without evidence would have done no good at all. What could John do? Kill bart? [shakes head] Turn him in without evidence? [shrugs] Or leave him to live or die. If he lives, *maybe they figure they can wrap him up later after Butch rolls on him? all speculation. at this point you can take your pick of the above possibilities, or perhaps it was all of them together. the most significant to me was tonto's renouncing killing on his own in the scene by deciding that maybe he wasn't such a killer after all. this was before john set the rule, remember.

              however, tonto's telegram to stop bart DID make sense to me. he knew what the killer was after, and it *wasn't the families. it was the lone ranger. tonto also knew that the killer would know that killing the remaining family would *not bring the ranger, but rather drive him further underground. leaving linda alive (answering the ranger's own challenge) was all bart wanted. he could always track her down again, after all, but killing her would have defeated the whole purpose of enabling the challenge.
              i think tonto misread the boy's readiness, tho. tonto thought the boy would meet bart and die in the attempt; rather, john won.
              Cindy

              Originally posted by Guicho
              I agree, Bart may be a completely changed man after his encounter with Reid and Tonto (and I don’t just mean physically ). And the Telegram seems to confirm it. It still does not explain why Reid would allow him to go free.
              I think they just assumed he would die, and underestimated his will.
              But considering this guy would not have even blinked while shooting Reid’s brother’s wife and kid, that’s makes the ending somewhat shoddy.
              Not to mention Tonto ridiculously banking on his own telegram somehow diverting Bart away from killing the brother’s wife and kid as well. That made no sense.
              None of the physics bothered me, but this story had some serious problems with character motivation intent and plot.

              Changed man or not, what bugs me about Bart somehow surviving to go free, is not the physics of it, but what it says about Reid and Tonto who allowed it

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              • #37
                From what we were shown, there’s just no way Tonto could have predicted Bart wouldn’t just murder her and her son like he did all the others. Bart didn’t have to kill any of the wives and kids to draw out the Ranger did he? He just had to find out which Ranger had survived. Not to mention this is a guy who seemed to get off on going back and doing whatever with the corpses, he was obviously into it.
                No way a telegram was going to stop that.
                I get it at the end were supposed to believe Bart is some kind of honorable fallen soul, the new Lone Ranger even carries his shiny guns just to homage the corpse skinning, murdering, necropheliak, woohoo!

                No I’m kidding, I see what Matthews was trying to convey, and it makes her look all the stronger for holding her ground and facing the devil. It just didn’t ring true for me because while Tonto knows this nut job is having tea with Dan’s wife and kid, he is busying himself dyeing Johns new suit baby blue for when he’s “ready!.”
                At the least he could of sent a note saying “get the hell out of the house, the living devil incarnate just murdered all your husbands colleagues wives and kids and he’s a comin’ for you next! Or whatever you can serve him tea and crumpets and please hand him my note. XOXO"
                Last edited by Guicho; 07-15-2007, 12:44 AM.

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                • #38
                  Poetic justice

                  Taking into account John's sense of justice letting Bart live if not perfect would be the better of all evils. I still think that Bart as bait is a tactic LR and Tonto could be using because if Butch wanted no witnesses he sure has heck would have to tie up Bart as a loose end. A one eyed probably crippled man isn't much use on a chain gang and I think his hand is pretty much useless so his gunfighting days if not over are limited.
                  Jail or no jail Barts old life looks to be over. John after taking someones pride number one and then the means of which to do evil could probably live with it. Tonto's knife if not providing a means of suicide is at least symbolically in regards to Tonto a tool of amputation (his killing nature) but who's to say it wasn't a bit more literal for Bart as a means to get out of the wreckage.

                  As for the guns.. don't look a gift .44 in the barrel.
                  Last edited by tonto; 07-15-2007, 06:10 AM.

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