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Issue #64: Three Word Recap!

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  • #31
    Had another thought- the scene where Butcher explains to Hughie why he's not waiting on the rest of The Boys (they're made for sneak attacks and brawls of opportunity, not battles) echoes his argument with Mallory when Mallory was so po'ed about his granddaughters being killed. He wanted an immediate confrontation, and Butcher had to remind him that he had to consider the safety of the others.

    It's interesting. Butcher has a vendetta against HL, and sympathizes with Hughie for his loss, but was much less sympathetic with Mallory. Actually, they weren't getting along well at all at that point, leading me to suspect ther was a falling out over something. My suspicion is that Butcher found out that Mallory doesn't want to eliminate V.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by statsman View Post
      The title of the next issue is "My Name Is...Michael Caine". Is that another reference to "The Man Who Would Be King", or something different (Butcher making a Cockney joke)?

      Side note- What the hell was going on with HL reading VG's blood pressure ("80 over 60")? Is this just crappy writing? How does super hearing or super vision relate to reading blood pressure?
      Didn't Raynor once say that Butcher sounded like Michael Caine?

      The blood pressure thing may have been a mix up? 80/60 is actually pretty low bp... But 80 beats per minute 80 beats per 60 seconds is something Homie could hear... Regardless, Vought Guy (Stilwell) ONCE AGAIN confronts someone whose goal is to do him grievous harm, and he causes the person to doubt their intentions and abandon their original plan. Is that his "super power"? (It's happened to MM, Frenchie, Homie and who else? Little Nina? VG even spooked Butcher, by Butcher's own admission) Is there more behind the "worthless species" comment? Is VG alien? Does he not consider himself a member of the human species? Is Vought really growing HL's replacement in a lab somewhere, or is that more paranoia? *cue the theme from X-Files* Could Vought Guy be a secret alien hybrid, or Vought experiment who took over and destroyed all records of his being an experiment? His old boss knew VG was "different" some way.... Is part of the global takeover Vought plans really just part of a scheme to replace the human species on Earth?! Where was Vought during the Roswell crash?... Roswell, Stilwell, Roswell, Stilwell.... THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE!!!

      I think Billy Boy truly plans to take his "shot" at Homie as revenge for HL taking Butcher's wife away from him. Becky was the only person Butcher met who gave him a real chance for.... REDEMPTION (ie. a chance for him NOT to turn out to be like his father). Butcher doesn't want to take the others (Hughie) with him because he knows that he's very likely to FAIL killing HL and more likely to die. This is Okay with Butcher because he has ALWAYS been self-destructive (based on the mini-series). He's self-destructive because he HATES many aspects of himself, just like he HATED his father. I think Butcher was the most honest with the others that we have ever seen him... No need to manipulate any more, the moment he's been waiting for is about to happen. Now, he doesn't want anyone else (Hughie) to die, or get in the way of his chance to hurt Homie. Since Mallory found him in that cell, Butcher's entire existence has been focused on getting his shot at Homelander. I think it helps Butcher to know that the other supes are pretty much done for. But, he is focused on his PERSONAL "hands on" REVENGE. He wants to go for it BEFORE the missles start flying, rather than to just see Homelander get shot down by someone else...

      Interestingly, Black Noir seems to be the key to the whole thing at this point... I always wondered what the words "Good soldier.... Good Soldier" referenced... They're the only words BN has spoken in the book, and BN definitely has some secret origin.... If BN is genetically designed as a soldier supe prototype, or had his brain experimented on, or he was lobotomized as a child, or he's a dead soldier re-animated with V, then it explains a lot... If BN was lobotomized when the 3 of them were young, it would make sense of Maeve's "brain dead zombie" comments and disgust and physical involvement with him... AND explain why her anger was directed at Homie, but NOT at BN himself)... Only Homie, Maeve (may her enhanced mammaries rest in peace) and POSSIBLY VG (Stilwell) would know BN's true origins... VG might NOT even know about BN... In fact, VG may be the NEW and IMPROVED beta product of the same series of experiments that created BN... Then he was infiltrated into Vought American.

      One interesting thing about BN is that he is stealthy. He observed Hughie (and probably some of the others) in the hanger during Herogasm and was skilled enough to 1. Not be detected by any of the Boys. 2. Track down Hughie in the sewers under the hotel, and 3. Sneak up on Hughie in that enclosed space (sewer) and take him out before he could call for help... (Okay, granted Hughie is not the sharpest knife in the drawer)

      Anyway, I just hope Butcher's "mystery guest" is not some new character like "Dead Bat Ambush Bugpoolmite from dimension Q" who was invisibly involved from the beginning... Re-routing the plane to Dulles means it was probably originally a domestic flight going into Reagan National Airport....

      And I REALLY hope they release the Lamplighter... His little room is prolly full from the floor to the ceiling by now....

      Kamakazi: 3 words: "Get Well Soon"
      Last edited by Hot_Ch0c0; 03-14-2012, 12:24 AM.

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      • #33
        I think my theory explains a lot of the odd stuff from #50. The Boys were created to police the supes. After 9-11, the US realized the supes were useless as weapons. The new project started, and Stilwell was assigned to introduce the new product (V-ed up soldiers/mercenaries) and end the old one. This is a government sponsored project, so Mallory and Rayner are briefed on it.

        Stilwell sends the HL photos to the Boys, leading to their confrontation. The purpose being to keep the Boys occupied with the caped supes, and not noticing the others. I suspect Butcher was aware of Mallory's involvement, from the Vogelbaum interrogation (Side note- if Butcher has any question for Vogelbaum, it's "How do I kill HL?"). Mallory is right about one thing- Butcher hates supes, period.

        This explains why there were no repercussions from the troops massacre in Antarctica- the US government/army was aware. It was about preserving a key weapons program. Funding for the Boys was pulled, then, because it was just too much of a hot potatoe.

        After Dakota Bob reflects a bit, he gets Butcher back online, although not briefing him completely. Stilwell uses releases of info to keep the Boys busy culling his herd. I've come around to believing it was Butcher that confronted Mallory in his house, in order to find out just what Mallory knew. I suspect Butcher just might know what he's about to get into.
        Last edited by statsman; 03-14-2012, 03:35 PM.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Hot_Ch0c0 View Post
          I always wondered what the words "Good soldier.... Good Soldier" referenced...
          Really? You didn't get the joke?

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          "Good soldier" is how Batman constantly refers to Robin, in particular Jason Todd.

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          • #35
            I had to refer to the Wikipedia page for that one myself. It does beg the question if Black Noir's supposed to be crucial to the big picture, what's he up to sticking his thumb up people's arses?

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Simon Rogerson View Post
              if Black Noir's supposed to be crucial to the big picture, what's he up to sticking his thumb up people's arses?
              As the first super-soldier, that's simply how he assesses the competence levels of other potential super-soldiers. Clearly - being the prototype - his judgment is all kinds of screwed up, being as he considers Hughie a 'good soldier'. Be prepared for issue 65, when Black Noir will show up midway through the Butcher and Homelander showdown, yank HL's pants down, ram the thumb in, say "Bad soldier, bad soldier," and swiftly decapitate him (as decapitation seems to be the most effective way of dealing with a member of The Seven).

              Butcher looks on, bewildered, and screams 'NO!'. Black Noir runs away. Wait another month.

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              • #37
                I don't keep my issues, but trade them off at HalfPriceBooks, so my reference material is limited. I can see from the #54 preview that Mallory explains why he joined the CIA. He wanted to protect American interests. He didn't want to make the world better, and he didn't want to save it from supes. He wanted America to be stronger, the rest of the world to comply, and he mistrusted contractors. That is a much different mission than Butcher's, and would be a source of tension between them.

                What did Mallory say later in the issue, about para-military teams?

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                • #38
                  So, I went back and reviewed the Mallory discourse. It reads differently now, after the Butcher miniseries, and with perspective. Mallory's story has holes-

                  1. He wanted to restrain Butcher, because Butcher is evil and wants to kill all the supes.
                  2. Mallory wants a long, cold war.
                  3. Mallory notes that the problem with para-military units is that they start creating their own missions and goals. In this case, the mission Butcher is creating is a confrontation with the Seven.

                  Given that Mallory admittedly wants to advance the US' goals above all, and that he ordered the death of Vogelbaum because he didn't need him anymore, do you buy the idea that Mallory is the moderating hand? I think it's as simple as Butcher and Mallory know they want different things.

                  By the way, in #54, Butcher makes the comment (while enjoying the death of several supe-pageant winners) that having power turns everybody into f***ing c***s. It's true in Butcher's case (violent murder of Jack in retaliation for killing his dog). Interestingly, it's also the case with Hughie (killing of A-Train). Butcher is self-aware enough to realize how bad he is. Are the others?

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                  • #39
                    Absolute power makes everyone absolute c***ts. Or does it? Butcher was who he was before he ever encountered superhumans. Hughie killed A-Train, but like the death of Blarney Cock, it may be unintentional. Hughie's problem has always been that he won't even try to take responsibility for the power he now has, he thinks it's too much for one man and would rather pretend the problem wasn't there, so he may well have kicked A-Train's head off without meaning to.

                    Frenchie may be a nutter in combat, but I think he was probably like that before the V too, and the story of him and the Female is one of power gradually being tamed by humanity, rather than corrupting it. Finally, Mother's Milk is definitely one of the good guys. MM is one of the most interesting characters in the Boys because he doesn't hate supes as such, what he hates is the corporation behind them. It was Voight who destroyed his family, one way or another, and I think that's as close as Ennis comes to a moral here. Corporate power corrupts absolutely, and the supes are the ultimate proof of that.

                    Butcher's lesson about power was learned at the hands of his father, and that's part of the reason he hates Homelander so much. I think that to Butcher, the Homelander is his father in many ways. HL dominates everyone around him, and holds them in contempt for it. In Butcher's own mini-series his Dad's final taunt is that Butcher would have loved to have taken him on in his prime, but now he'll never get the chance. I think that Butcher confronting Homelander is him taking that chance. If BN takes it away from him there will be hell to pay!
                    Last edited by Mark B; 03-26-2012, 07:04 PM.

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                    • #40
                      Fun. Goddamn fun.

                      And a very belated on my part GOOD FUCKIN WORK to Russ Braun, someone I haven't bothered to compliment on this forum (to be honest, I ain't been on this forum enough in the first place). Braun's done excellent and I am have to give serious credit where all his magnificent effort has gone.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by statsman View Post
                        Sure. If only MM had gotten through three minutes sooner. It's a device to build artificial suspense.

                        I'm reminded of Pauline Kael's quote- "Movies are so rarely great art, that if you can't enjoy great trash, there's almost no point in going." I'm really enjoying this series, still. Ennis is not a great writer, but he is a fun writer.

                        Besides, is Ellis a great writer? I really liked "Planetary", but come on- the Randall Dowling character wouldn't kill Isaiah when he had the chance? Isn't that a little, "I'd like to stay and watch you die, Batman, but I have to run across town to rob a bank!" And how the series ended, with a huge hole opening up and them all falling in it? Really? Nevertheless, it was n enjoyable series.

                        This is great trash, and I am really expecting an exceptional issue #65. After all, it will have troops fighting, and this is Ennis after all.
                        Why revisit this? Becauee I just figured out that the lame conclusion to Planetary isn't lame at all. It was a joke (which, of course, I'm spoiling by explaining it). The setting- the US desert. The characters- Randall Dowling, holding all the cards and ready to settle his score with Snow once and for all. What happens? A hole opens up, and Dowling falls into it!

                        IOW, Dowling is the coyote, and Snow is the roadrunner. Ellis snuck in one final pop reference, picking one that highlights the frivolity of all this. All that was missing was for Dowling to somehow survive enough to pick his head up, only to have it dashed in by an "Acme" anvil.

                        So...your take on the effectiveness of this is probably dependent upon your opinion of Ellis as a writer. If you like him, you might think it's brilliant. If you don't, you might think it's insipid and a cop out.
                        Last edited by statsman; 04-24-2012, 10:08 AM.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Mark B View Post
                          Absolute power makes everyone absolute c***ts. Or does it? Butcher was who he was before he ever encountered superhumans. Hughie killed A-Train, but like the death of Blarney Cock, it may be unintentional. Hughie's problem has always been that he won't even try to take responsibility for the power he now has, he thinks it's too much for one man and would rather pretend the problem wasn't there, so he may well have kicked A-Train's head off without meaning to.

                          Frenchie may be a nutter in combat, but I think he was probably like that before the V too, and the story of him and the Female is one of power gradually being tamed by humanity, rather than corrupting it. Finally, Mother's Milk is definitely one of the good guys. MM is one of the most interesting characters in the Boys because he doesn't hate supes as such, what he hates is the corporation behind them. It was Voight who destroyed his family, one way or another, and I think that's as close as Ennis comes to a moral here. Corporate power corrupts absolutely, and the supes are the ultimate proof of that.

                          Butcher's lesson about power was learned at the hands of his father, and that's part of the reason he hates Homelander so much. I think that to Butcher, the Homelander is his father in many ways. HL dominates everyone around him, and holds them in contempt for it. In Butcher's own mini-series his Dad's final taunt is that Butcher would have loved to have taken him on in his prime, but now he'll never get the chance. I think that Butcher confronting Homelander is him taking that chance. If BN takes it away from him there will be hell to pay!
                          You're a bit smarter than I am, Sigmund, mate

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