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Why don't the bad girl comics of Dynamite deliver what they market on?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by ChastMastr View Post
    ... all right, then. What previous version of Red Sonja, for instance, do you think is better than this one? I assume you prefer the older versions of Vampirella from your excerpt.
    I'm just critiquing these current comics like I would any other entertainment out there today.

    Originally posted by rlvaugh View Post
    Vampirella as a standard DC superheroine isn't that interesting. Why DOES Dynamite make erotic covers only to avoid anything remotely erotic or romantic inside???
    Very much agreed on both points there.
    Last edited by Psionic_Lemmy; 02-06-2013, 07:01 AM.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Psionic_Lemmy View Post
      I'm just critiquing these current comics like I would any other entertainment out there today.
      Okay, so ... is there a version of Sonja (and Vampi) that you prefer to the current one?

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      • #33
        I've only read a little bit of old Red Sonja, no real opinion there. But sure I do like some Vampirella more than the current stuff, I enjoyed what Amanda Conner was on etc. Though I wouldn't need to like previous runs to have complaints with these current series. Ha anyways, why so many questions?

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Psionic_Lemmy View Post
          I've only read a little bit of old Red Sonja, no real opinion there. But sure I do like some Vampirella more than the current stuff, I enjoyed what Amanda Conner was on etc. Though I wouldn't need to like previous runs to have complaints with these current series. Ha anyways, why so many questions?
          Well, in the case of Red Sonja, at least... if you didn't care for any previous version of the character... and you don't like this version of the character either... but mainly seem to want her to have more overt sex in the stories... then I would like to suggest that you're not really a fan of Red Sonja, as a character, as such.

          Let me put it another way--I'm not at all a fan of Ennis' The Boys series. If there was more classic-style super-heroism in it, I'd probably like it better. But I wouldn't go and suggest that Ennis write it differently to suit me when it's a series that has its own essence, specific direction, and array of fans.

          I dislike most of DC's current "New 52" universe. But part of that is because I'm a fan of the characters going way back, and I can say that I believe that the current version is (in my view) a travesty compared with who the characters traditionally have been, who they were intended to be, and so on. I can complain that Hal Jordan shouldn't be a jerk because he hasn't been a jerk in the decades he's been around. It would be weird if I complained that Guy Gardner shouldn't be a jerk.

          In the same way, one can say that Red Sonja has been done a certain way over the decades, and largely consistently, and she has her array of fans going all the way back to the 1970s. It might be one thing to say that the essence of the character or her world has changed for the worse or the better (one reason I didn't care for the whole Queen Sonja concept is that it made changes I found ill-fitting for the character and her world)--it's another entirely to say that one hasn't really cared for the character in any of her previous incarnations, nor for the current version, but that the writers and artists should make her into something else because it would be more pleasing to oneself.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by ChastMastr View Post
            it's another entirely to say that one hasn't really cared for the character in any of her previous incarnations, nor for the current version
            I never said I don't care for the character, and my suggestions wouldn't even require changing the character herself. Just sayin', if your only point in a topic is to dismiss someone else's opinion, there's not much purpose to that. I've elaborated on my opinions plenty, you can post yours as well. But the style of just quoting and nitpicking other people's opinions on how "valid" or not they are to you is just not fruitful discussion.

            And the main point of the topic wasn't about having Sonja have sex, that's another topic, its about more overt sexuality, among other things.

            There are plenty of Sonja or Vampirella fans in this topic who agree too. I'll let them continue it, ha I think I've elaborated enough for now.
            Last edited by Psionic_Lemmy; 02-06-2013, 11:09 AM.

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            • #36
              I can agree with Lemmy in the sense that I am attracted to the covers of a lot of Dynamite's female characters, where they are portrayed sexily. In fact that image of the character is what attracts me to the character most, and I lose interest when the character's natural attributes (and dare I say, from my point of view, entire raison d'etre) are downplayed in the actual comic story in favor of a more straightforward 'serious' adventure approach. I would be more likely to read books like Red Sonja and Vampirella if there were a titillation element present, and a slightly more lighthearted fun approach to the characters, at least on frequent occasions. As it is, there's little to differentiate these characters from the sort of female protagonists in Marvel and DC comics, and in fact from a "good girl art" aspect, the artwork in these books is generally inferior to what you'd find in a Marvel or DC comic. The characterization and specific background details of these characters, whether consistent or not with previous versions, is much less important to me than it is in the case of most long-running Marvel and DC characters. I would except Dejah Thoris from that rule, since it is adapting ERB's character and I don't think it should stray far from the original.
              DE pull list: Will Eisner's The Spirit: The Corpse Makers, ERB's The Greatest Adventure, Green Hornet '66 Meets The Spirit, PSP: Herokillers, KISS/Vampirella, Mighty Mouse

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              • #37
                I suppose I'll just have to be the person who disagrees, then. I stand by what I've said. Not sure what there is to add, really.

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                • #38
                  Oh, but I have something to add

                  You can easily make a comic where the plot consists of nothing but random superheroes pointlessly kicking the shit out of each other. 99% of the golden age were basically this winner formula, and it NEVER got boring
                  Nothing but random superheroines showing their assets doesn't work that way, unless it's outright porn.
                  (In that case you usually no longer complain about a lack of plot. )
                  Also, it might have even an overall negative effect on the sales. (Frankly, Vampirella isn't my
                  favorite heroine because she runs around half-naked. I was fascinated by her personality even long
                  before I grew hairs down below )

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                  • #39
                    (Frankly, Vampirella isn't my favorite heroine because she runs around half-naked. I was fascinated by her personality even long
                    before I grew hairs down below )[/QUOTE]

                    This may be the funniest quote I have ever read on this forum!

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by positronic View Post
                      You know you can edit your own posts, right rlvaugh?
                      Obviously not!

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by rlvaugh View Post
                        Obviously not!
                        When you're logged in, you'll see "Edit Post" down at the bottom of your own posts, in the gray bar where you see "Reply With Quote".
                        DE pull list: Will Eisner's The Spirit: The Corpse Makers, ERB's The Greatest Adventure, Green Hornet '66 Meets The Spirit, PSP: Herokillers, KISS/Vampirella, Mighty Mouse

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                        • #42
                          Okay...I've read through all of this and there's a VERY simple solution:

                          If you want porn comics, go buy porn comics.

                          Because that's SORT Of what it sounds like.

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                          • #43
                            If you can't see the difference between PORN and "cheesecake", "titillation", or "fanservice", there's probably no hope of explaining it to you. There's an enormous gulf between "sexy" and "pornographic", just as there's a big difference between MAXIM and HUSTLER. But if someone wants to consider the movie Barbarella pornography, that's their right, I guess.
                            Last edited by positronic; 02-17-2013, 12:21 AM.
                            DE pull list: Will Eisner's The Spirit: The Corpse Makers, ERB's The Greatest Adventure, Green Hornet '66 Meets The Spirit, PSP: Herokillers, KISS/Vampirella, Mighty Mouse

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by positronic View Post
                              If you can't see the difference between PORN and "cheesecake", "titillation", or "fanservice", there's probably no hope of explaining it to you. There's an enormous gulf between "sexy" and "pornographic", just as there's a big difference between MAXIM and HUSTLER. But if someone wants to consider the movie Barbarella pornography, that's their right, I guess.
                              No, see...I agree with that. I understand that.

                              I don't think a couple of the guys posting here DO.

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                              • #45
                                I'm not picking up on that. DE's Vampirella comics have been sexless and humorless, despite the character's costume and depiction on covers. As compared to, you know, the Warren era, like the example that Psionic Lemmy posted. I just think we could do with a little less of the unrelenting grimness. Who knows, that may well be exactly what a lot of readers are looking for, though. There was a little bit of an attempt to inject some humor into Dark Shadows/Vampirella, but it was an uncomfortable mix with the gruesome horror elements of the plot -- not even the sort of black humor that British comics seem to do so well. As a result, neither the humor nor the serious aspects worked for me.
                                DE pull list: Will Eisner's The Spirit: The Corpse Makers, ERB's The Greatest Adventure, Green Hornet '66 Meets The Spirit, PSP: Herokillers, KISS/Vampirella, Mighty Mouse

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