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  • #16
    Originally posted by Ghornet2 View Post
    I remember reading somewhere that there is a clause in the original contract that if they stop publishing Wonder Woman the rights revert to the original creator. While I'm sure he's dead I have no doubt his family would have a good argument to obtain the rights. Not sure if that means she has to be in her own comic or jsut regularly appearing in a DC comic.
    Of course DC wouldn't stop publishing it. They'll just retool it with a new creative team, a new direction, and a new number 1 issue. They're already planning to do that with Teen Titans, which will make it the first New 52 title to be re-rebooted.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by ChastMastr View Post
      They've had various deaths and dark events but the baseline premise of the DCU wasn't grim and dystopic until the New 52. I like a few books in it but as a universe, I find it repulsive. We now have Amazons and Guardians (not just a few--I mean all of them) who have always been evil. No, just no.
      No, I don't think it happened entirely between the months of August and September of 2011. Flashpoint should have been kind of hint, but the general direction has been going that way (picking up speed as it went) since the early '90s. Jim Lee and Dan Didio bear a lot of the blame, since they took over, but they're ultimately just enthusiastic bandwagon-hoppers repeating formulas that represent high points on sales parabolas.

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      • #18
        The direction may have often gone that way since the 80s and 90s, but the baseline premise wasn't like that. Even if bad things happened, the characters' backgrounds and origins remained essentially good. With the reboot, DC's basically said, "Okay, things have always been this way"--in my view, always been bad--without the good roots to keep things in check somewhat.

        There were some corrupt or messed-up Guardians before, even some sneakiness and deception, but now they are truly evil. (Well, OK, now they're dead, but before that they were evil.) We had the Bana-Migdall, and some manipulation of the Amazons by Granny Goodness to have that ghastly Amazons Attack, but the Amazons were still basically good before--now they're, again, evil, albeit currently turned into snakes.

        Some heroes had some bad times, some even started stepping over lines, but now in the new continuity they started out already over those lines. And so on. I'm sorry, but I think the new reboot marked a definite and dramatic shift for the DCU, and I believe the sooner it is gone, the better.

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        • #19
          The shift was in cutting away as useless all that was once certain, comforting and familiar, exposing a carcass already advanced in decomposition. Which is why it works great for "The Dark" (because it's reminiscent of the old Vertigo), but shitty for just about everything else. You just refuse to acknowledge all the bad crap they did pre-New 52 that was leading in that direction, because you could always take refuge in the good memories of stuff from the past that hadn't been erased. Superman killed the Phantom Zone villains, Hal Jordan killed hundreds of GLs, then tried to remake the universe in Zero Hour. Wonder Woman snapped a villain's neck, Roy Harper slipped back into being a drug addict. It didn't all happen in the space of 3 years, but it happened. You can retcon stories, but you can't undo the fact that DC did these things in the first place.

          The new DC universe is not going away however, so you might as well resign yourself to that fact. No matter HOW bad sales are, or get, the Old DC is dead and buried. Treasure your back issues and reprint collections, because that's all you've got left or will ever be getting. I think they've made it pretty clear there's not a chance in hell of an un-boot. They are NEVER GOING BACK, because that would be the same as acknowledging that they made the biggest blunder in comics' publishing history. Yeah, maybe bits and pieces of old continuity return here and there, 20 years down the road, just like the original Crisis. I just don't have the patience to wait for it, and it will never be in a 'perfectly restored' state anyway.

          You don't need to convince me how bad it is. But as the saying goes, Rome wasn't built in a day, and the Roman Empire didn't crumble in a day either. It's only apparent with 20/20 hindsight. Before the reboot, there was still a chance of the pendulum swinging back in the opposite direction, but even that faint hope is gone now.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by pulphero View Post
            The shift was in cutting away as useless all that was once certain, comforting and familiar, exposing a carcass already advanced in decomposition. Which is why it works great for "The Dark" (because it's reminiscent of the old Vertigo), but shitty for just about everything else. You just refuse to acknowledge all the bad crap they did pre-New 52 that was leading in that direction, because you could always take refuge in the good memories of stuff from the past that hadn't been erased. Superman killed the Phantom Zone villains, Hal Jordan killed hundreds of GLs, then tried to remake the universe in Zero Hour. Wonder Woman snapped a villain's neck, Roy Harper slipped back into being a drug addict. It didn't all happen in the space of 3 years, but it happened. You can retcon stories, but you can't undo the fact that DC did these things in the first place.

            The new DC universe is not going away however, so you might as well resign yourself to that fact. No matter HOW bad sales are, or get, the Old DC is dead and buried. Treasure your back issues and reprint collections, because that's all you've got left or will ever be getting. I think they've made it pretty clear there's not a chance in hell of an un-boot. They are NEVER GOING BACK, because that would be the same as acknowledging that they made the biggest blunder in comics' publishing history. Yeah, maybe bits and pieces of old continuity return here and there, 20 years down the road, just like the original Crisis. I just don't have the patience to wait for it, and it will never be in a 'perfectly restored' state anyway.

            You don't need to convince me how bad it is. But as the saying goes, Rome wasn't built in a day, and the Roman Empire didn't crumble in a day either. It's only apparent with 20/20 hindsight. Before the reboot, there was still a chance of the pendulum swinging back in the opposite direction, but even that faint hope is gone now.
            Remember NEW COCA-COLA? DC could do as Coke did with COKE CLASSIC and have one of the New 52 parallel universes be more of the DCU of the last 20 years. Call it Earth Classic and faze out the New Earth Zero. Many of us were hoping that Earth 2 was going to be the Roy Thomas Earth Two but turned into a more fresher variation of the JSA. Many fans are still upset about the jettison of the continuity of the past 20 years. DC took a gamble to make a splash on the comic reading public by giving everyone a fresh start. However, it seems the idea was conceived over a kegger some weekend and many aspects that made DC great were trashed (my son was a fan of the Jamie Reyes Blue Beetle for his willingness to uphold a "family" legacy--current DCU has no previous Blue Beetles and my son feels a great part of his personality/motivation was gone). DC also tried to have it both ways with Batman, GL, and LSH having carryover continuity. It is hard to have four Robins and four earth Green Lanterns in the span of five years. The New DCU is ok but they launch was poorly executed as more thinking of the character's relaunches needed to be thought out.

            Back to Thundarr! I remember loving the villain Gemini (one part magician, one part mad scientist). DE might want to check into the steps to gain rights.

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            • #21
              DC is in its rights to reboot itself every 20 years or so. DC had an original universe in the 1940s. Created a parallel universe in Earth 1 in the 1960s. Wiped out all the multiverses in Crisis on Infinite Earths in the 1980s. And today we have the New 52. I too feel having gone through two shifts in my comic reading lifetime (Crisis and this New 52) that change is necessary for a business to survive. I feel hurt by the changes made (I lamented the loss of Earth S and Earth 2 after the Crisis as I enjoyed the self-contained earths) but know it is best for the current generation to have their own DCU.

              My previous rant was about the lack of quality character building when some "cluttered" continuity was jettisoned for the "new" character. My apologies.

              Thundarr was a wonderful adventure show. It had humor and personality that would be welcome in a DE style comic.


              HEY, I JUST REALIZED THAT I MADE IT TO SUPERHERO STATUS ON MY POSTING!!!! Now I know how Wally West felt like when he went from sidekick to superhero.
              Last edited by Blinky McQuade; 05-13-2014, 10:51 AM. Reason: status change realized

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Blinky McQuade View Post
                Remember NEW COCA-COLA? DC could do as Coke did with COKE CLASSIC and have one of the New 52 parallel universes be more of the DCU of the last 20 years. Call it Earth Classic and faze out the New Earth Zero.
                Not the right analogy though. Coca-Cola knew exactly what it was doing with "New Coke". The comic book analogy here would be The Death of Superman, or replacing Classic Batman with New (Azrael) Batman. Stir up some crazy interest in the public by outraging people, then stage The Triumphant Return of the One True Original.

                The new EARTH 2 title *could* have been an olive branch extended in thanks to older readers, a peace offering if you will, as a sign that DC hadn't completely forgotten them (ONE title as a token gesture), but instead it stands as a testament to their staunch commitment to NEVER look back. DC is serving its older readers with notice to crawl off and die (after they spend what money they have on DC reprint collections).
                Last edited by pulphero; 05-13-2014, 02:09 PM.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by pulphero View Post
                  Not the right analogy though. Coca-Cola knew exactly what it was doing with "New Coke". The comic book analogy here would be The Death of Superman, or replacing Classic Batman with New (Azrael) Batman. Stir up some crazy interest in the public by outraging people, then stage The Triumphant Return of the One True Original.

                  The new EARTH 2 title *could* have been an olive branch extended in thanks to older readers, a peace offering if you will, as a sign that DC hadn't completely forgotten them (ONE title as a token gesture), but instead it stands as a testament to their staunch commitment to NEVER look back. DC is serving its older readers with notice to crawl off and die (after they spend what money they have on DC reprint collections).
                  I agree. I too had hoped that Earth 2 was going to be that olive branch to us older fans of continuity. DC chose to sever older readers with poorly thought out versions (some paler versions) of the characters we liked.

                  Most feel that Coke's experiment was a failure and had to go back to the original with a "saving of face" approach. They did not plan to go back until they got the customer backlash to the new coke formula (it is not being made anymore from what I can tell) as their goal was to compete with Pepsi's sweet flavored dominance. Coke recently made a similar marketing mistake by recent Polar Bear White cans that Coke had to recall because customers were too confused and could not find any coke on the shelves of stores.

                  It is ok with me if DC decides to not give us old story telling fans a bone to chew. Young Justice comic (sadly, recently cancelled) and Batman Beyond Universe have enough old DCU continuity to keep my buying some DC titles. Mostly, I have dropped most DC titles (currently just GLC, Detective Comics, and Justice League--I might pick up Batman & Robin once Damien is brought back to life). It just makes more opportunities for me to buy more DE!!!

                  DE brings quality covers, engaging licensed "pulp" characters, and good stories. Who needs DC after the botched reboot? DE only benefits. Any licensed character that could bring more attention to the quality comics that DE publishes, like possible characters like Thundarr the Barbarian or Power Rangers, would be great!

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Blinky McQuade View Post
                    It is ok with me if DC decides to not give us old story telling fans a bone to chew. Young Justice comic (sadly, recently cancelled) and Batman Beyond Universe have enough old DCU continuity to keep my buying some DC titles. Mostly, I have dropped most DC titles (currently just GLC, Detective Comics, and Justice League--I might pick up Batman & Robin once Damien is brought back to life). It just makes more opportunities for me to buy more DE!!!

                    DE brings quality covers, engaging licensed "pulp" characters, and good stories. Who needs DC after the botched reboot? DE only benefits. Any licensed character that could bring more attention to the quality comics that DE publishes, like possible characters like Thundarr the Barbarian or Power Rangers, would be great!
                    I fear that Batman Beyond Universe may not be long in ending as well. It does appear that they hope to incorporate Terry McGinnis into the New 52 with the recent weekly series Futures End. There are still a few DC non-New 52 titles featuring past echoes of DC superheroes -- Adventures of Superman, Batman '66, and Scooby Doo Team-Up; but those aren't anything like the old pre-52 DCU. Adventures of Superman may be the closest, but it doesn't *quite* fit in the old continuity.

                    Still, you're absolutely right that those old DC readers who still need their monthly or weekly comics fix need to turn *somewhere*. Presumably that's not Marvel, since if they were interested in Marvel's titles they'd already be reading them; they don't really require much effort to find. Those lost sales from old DC readers will go to smaller publishers like Dynamite, Dark Horse, and other companies whose characters and titles aren't so mired in years of continuity that they're inaccessible and difficult to catch up on.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by pulphero View Post
                      The shift was in cutting away as useless all that was once certain, comforting and familiar, exposing a carcass already advanced in decomposition.
                      Sorry, I must disagree here; while some things went a bit over the edge at times, I really don't see it the way you do.

                      You just refuse to acknowledge all the bad crap they did pre-New 52 that was leading in that direction
                      No, I'm quite aware of DC's stuff for the last few decades, having been reading it all that time.

                      The new DC universe is not going away however, so you might as well resign yourself to that fact. .
                      Oh, I don't agree at all. Marvel went terribly bad during and after Civil War, but they have recovered beautifully.

                      and it will never be in a 'perfectly restored' state anyway.
                      I don't expect it to be, any more than that Earth-2 was the same as the actual Golden Age, or for that matter that the excellent Golden-Age-related stuff by James Robinson in the 1990s was the same as the Roy Thomas stuff.

                      I do think a new reboot is in order, or a different DCU spotlighted. But I don't expect it to be a return of the previous versions--I would like, and hope to see, a DCU reimagined for the present day, but with the same heroism and goodness it is currently missing.
                      Last edited by ChastMastr; 05-13-2014, 07:11 PM.

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                      • #26
                        PS: The new Earth 2 (and Worlds' Finest) is one of my favorite DC titles, both under Robinson and now under Taylor (and Levitz).

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                        • #27
                          The problems I have with the new 52 are highlighted in one character. Stargirl

                          She's the step daughter of Stripsy . . . Oh wait he doesn't exist!
                          Her comic converter belt was designed by the original Starman . . . Oh wait he doesn't exist either
                          The belt was originally used by the Star-Spangled Kid . . . Oh wait another character that doesn't exist.
                          The Cosmic Rod she uses was designed by the original Starman and used by the Modern Age Starman. Damn, neither of those characters exist.
                          Always remember, Murphy was an optimist
                          Munchkin 1, 2, 4, 7 Super Munchkin 1&2, Munchkin Bites 1&2, Munchkin Fu, Star Munchkin Deluxe and Star 2
                          http://ghornet.deviantart.com/

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by ChastMastr View Post
                            I would like, and hope to see, a DCU reimagined for the present day, but with the same heroism and goodness it is currently missing.
                            We can always hope to get what we like. I suppose it depends on one's patience and lifespan, versus how long Didio and Lee remain as co-publishers of DC Comics. I'm 57, and my Magic 8-Ball is displaying "Outlook Not Good". I'm largely moving on from any sort of emotional investment in DC, with the exception of relative handful of current titles and reprints, to comics I can read right now (or at least see listed in the Diamond Previews catalog), because I can't detect even a hint of imminent change in the wind. Maybe if I live another 30 years, I'll get to see it, but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting. But that's fine. I read only a fraction of the percentage of titles I used to at Marvel as well. There's plenty of other stuff in the Previews catalog to more than fill my reading time, and even if I were to stop buying anything comics-related tomorrow, I still have enough boxes of unread (or un-re-read) stuff to carry me through the next few years.

                            Since we can't really agree on definitions of such words as "universe", or what was/wasn't or is/isn't good or bad in past or present-day Marvel, or how that is like or unlike the former vs. current situation relating to DC, I suppose we'll just have to disagree amicably and drop the topic.

                            Besides, this is supposed to be about Thundarr.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by pulphero View Post
                              versus how long Didio and Lee remain as co-publishers of DC Comics
                              Bingo. I don't expect things to improve overall till that changes. (46 here, by the way...)

                              Besides, this is supposed to be about Thundarr.
                              Indeed. *blush*

                              Did they ever put it on DVD?

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by ChastMastr View Post
                                Indeed. *blush*

                                Did they ever put it on DVD?
                                Indeed they did. Warner deems it not profitable enough a title for a regular DVD release, so it's available only as a Manufactured-On-Demand set issued by their Warner Archives label:

                                http://www.amazon.com/Thundarr-The-B.../dp/B00466X70Y

                                Slightly pricey compared to general-release DVD sets, but I wouldn't wait for a wide release if you really wanted it. If you're curious, you can view the other animated cartoons released on the Warner Archives label here.

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