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Simone Talks "Swords of Sorrow," Teases Big Changes for Major Characters

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  • #16
    As a side note, while it's arguable that these are different sets of criticism from different people (I'm not going to go back and sort it out right now), isn't it kind of... um... odd to have criticism of Red Sonja that she's covering up too much and that her breasts are too small and that she's too horny and "slutty"? I mean, it's certainly possible to combine those, but it kind of comes across to me as people saying that Red Sonja is simultaneously too sexy and not sexy enough.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by ChastMastr View Post
      Two things:

      (1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slut-shaming

      (2) I also don't think Gail Simone is a misogynist. Call it a hunch.
      1 = misogyny
      2 = can't comment but this thread and that example doesn't really negate my comment.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Scarlette View Post
        1 = misogyny
        2 = can't comment but this thread and that example doesn't really negate my comment.
        There's also a possibility of a writer just doing a mediocre job.

        Also, whatever a writer may describe themselves as, a writing can read quite differently, so Simone's claims of feminism, lack of misogyny or what have you are irrelevant to the text and interpretations derived from it which may see it as sexist, misogynist or any other number of ways.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by ChastMastr View Post
          As a side note, while it's arguable that these are different sets of criticism from different people (I'm not going to go back and sort it out right now), isn't it kind of... um... odd to have criticism of Red Sonja that she's covering up too much and that her breasts are too small and that she's too horny and "slutty"? I mean, it's certainly possible to combine those, but it kind of comes across to me as people saying that Red Sonja is simultaneously too sexy and not sexy enough.
          Ah, somebody who understands.. lol

          I think to clarify - I think she is to look sexy, not act like a beer swilling sex hungry lout. For me personally, I think it's the believable adventure and excitement which are missing. It's just all so....blah!

          There is a difference. Although a fine one.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Scarlette View Post
            1 = misogyny
            2 = can't comment but this thread and that example doesn't really negate my comment.
            The action of slut-shaming is indeed misogynist, yes.

            Originally posted by Ajax
            There's also a possibility of a writer just doing a mediocre job.
            Yes, though she doesn't seem to be considered to be mediocre in general apart from this thread.

            ... writer may describe themselves as, a writing can read quite differently, so Simone's claims of feminism, lack of misogyny or what have you
            It's not about her claims--if you've read any of her other stuff, she's simply not a misogynist at all.

            By the way, as far as birth control, STDs, etc. are concerned:

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_c...#Early_history

            Add a world with reliable magic to the mix and I'm sure there would be treatments for STDs or magical birth control methods or whatnot.

            (Given Conan's own casual sexual habits, no one seems to talk about how many children he's begotten over the years in countless stories, nor about the STDs he might have gotten. Why do this with Sonja?)

            Since it was mentioned, no idea what the moral/religious/legal aspects of abortion would be in the Hyborian age, as I'm pretty sure it's never come up (heck, it hardly comes up in comics set in the present day), but again: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...#Premodern_era

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            • #21
              Originally posted by The Namer View Post
              I think to clarify - I think she is to look sexy, not act like a beer swilling sex hungry lout.
              So, look sexy for the reader but not actually have strong sexual impulses herself? Or is it the beer?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by The Namer View Post
                Ah, somebody who understands.. lol

                I think to clarify - I think she is to look sexy, not act like a beer swilling sex hungry lout. For me personally, I think it's the believable adventure and excitement which are missing. It's just all so....blah!

                There is a difference. Although a fine one.
                Quite agreed. A Red Sonja who is little more than a version of Conan is not of any interest. One who gets continually beaten and in need of rescue is even less so.

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                • #23
                  And yet people seem to like it enough that it was approved for a longer run. Funny, that.

                  Don't get me wrong, I thought and still think that the recent actions of, say, the Illuminati over at Marvel, and Tony/Reed during Civil War, were literally villainous, and that the Superman in Man of Steel made himself unworthy of the name by neck-snapping Zod, so I can understand the notion that a character is diverging away from their true inner nature. But on this and other threads I'm getting a kind of creepy vibe about her not being sexy enough for some readers (which I can also relate to--I want more John Carter in speedo-like briefs, not that kilt-like thing he's sometimes drawn in lately), or about her being too interested in sex, as if her whole purpose is to be a sort of sexless yet sexy pinup doll in a chain-mail bikini, rather than a character.

                  But this version of her seems to really appeal to a lot of readers, and it's getting good critical reviews. So some people like it for some reason...
                  Last edited by ChastMastr; 05-11-2015, 05:48 PM.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Ajax View Post
                    Quite agreed. A Red Sonja who is little more than a version of Conan is not of any interest. One who gets continually beaten and in need of rescue is even less so.
                    Also, buying time on sex slaves as she does at the end of the second arc is definitely a low point. In an arc whose story motive is freeing slaves, going to get laid by the sex slaves trafficked by the city guard is pretty questionable.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Ajax View Post
                      Also, buying time on sex slaves as she does at the end of the second arc
                      http://nerdsunchained.com/2014/09/review-red-sonja-12/

                      ...but since youíre now directly comparing the slaves Sonja was seeking to free with the sex workers she is with at the end of the issue, I have to admit, I donít recall any reference to Aneva and the other workers at the brothel being slaves. In fact, what there is reference to is the Madam and guards at the brothel loving and wishing to protect Aneva. yes, they are being abused and extorted by a guard captain and his men when Sonja first encounters them, but that is separate from the operation of the brothel itself (which is what we see at the end of this issue) and Sonja and Aneva resolved that situation in issue #9...

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                      • #26
                        ... am I the only one who posts here who likes Simone's writing?

                        The forums have a lot fewer posters than they did a while back, and it's beginning to feel like it's just me on one side, plus a couple of other people on the other side who mainly post about disliking the current direction of Red Sonja. If that's the case, then I'm wondering if I should bother staying myself.

                        Maybe everyone's gone off to CBR?
                        Last edited by ChastMastr; 05-11-2015, 09:40 PM.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by ChastMastr View Post
                          ... am I the only one who posts here who likes Simone's writing?

                          The forums have a lot fewer posters than they did a while back, and it's beginning to feel like it's just me on one side, plus a couple of other people on the other side who mainly post about disliking the current direction of Red Sonja. If that's the case, then I'm wondering if I should bother staying myself.

                          Maybe everyone's gone off to CBR?
                          I've posted before on here and in other places that I liked Simone's writing, I enjoyed Batgirl and I understand Birds of Prey was well received. I was actually excited for Simone on Sonja, then I got #1 onwards and well...blah, the offering to have sex with the swamp dwelling cannibals was the nail in the coffin for me.

                          In regards to the chainmail bikini, personally I would be happy if Sonja did away with it, my favorite outfit of hers will always be the 80's-90's blue leather she wore while at Marvel. She even stated in that series that it was impractical and pinched her in places

                          I find it interesting that Red Sonja now gets "rave" reviews all the time now it has a woman writer when before the series was considered a bit T&A before hand, a reaction to the current feminism that's sweeping the media these days?

                          In regards to the forums, I think we lost a lot of users when Dynamite removed the "badgirls" forum, deleting years worth of topics on ol'Red.

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                          • #28
                            We have strayed from the point.

                            I made mine long ago, so will stop I think

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by themightyflip View Post
                              In regards to the forums, I think we lost a lot of users when Dynamite removed the "badgirls" forum, deleting years worth of topics on ol'Red.
                              Ah, so that may be what happened. I am surprised there hasn't been more interest in discussing, say, the upcoming Spirit series.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by ChastMastr View Post
                                Ah, so that may be what happened. I am surprised there hasn't been more interest in discussing, say, the upcoming Spirit series.
                                Dont read or buy the Spirit, have no interest in the character or any knowledge, so would not answer a topic on the series.

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