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The new politically correct Vamprilla and Dejah Thoris

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  • #46
    Originally posted by shokoshu View Post

    In the end, it boils down to the question whether there are more SJWs (folks, I'm a German, I had to google that first) or more ecchis. :P
    Another point to take into consideration is how many non-SJW comic buyers have been culturally shamed over the past 10 years into not buying sexy comics. That's why I've never been ashamed in publicly buying my awesome Dynamite books over the years as I drop them on the counter. I refuse to be ashamed of buying awesome things. I encourage all other Dynamite fans to do the same.

    Additionally, Swords of Sorrow proved all these outlandish concepts could not only work, but work in the same universe and storyline, chainmail bikinis and all.

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    • #47
      WHY didn't they get this guy (Nick Bradshaw) to draw a Dejah Thoris comic for Dynamite?

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      • #48
        G'day,

        Why not? Probably because he likes drawing beautiful women. (Yes I'm a incorrigible old cynic)

        DE did pretty well with that Indian chap, Abhishek Malsuni on John Carter. Wish they kept him. I expect to see his name pop up on the big two's books.

        Incidentally I showed examples of Malsuni's John Carter & Dejah art on a Sci fi romance facebook page and the ladies there loved it, so they must be a bunch of wankers too.

        Ralph

        Originally posted by pulphero View Post
        WHY didn't they get this guy (Nick Bradshaw) to draw a Dejah Thoris comic for Dynamite?

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        • #49
          I have no problem with changing a character's costume or look as long as there's a reason other than 'because we can'. In Vampi's case her look was part of her appeal, not because it was so revealing but because it kind of said up front what you could expect from the character. Dangerous, sexy with no attempt to hide it.
          Always remember, Murphy was an optimist
          Munchkin 1, 2, 4, 7 Super Munchkin 1&2, Munchkin Bites 1&2, Munchkin Fu, Star Munchkin Deluxe and Star 2
          http://ghornet.deviantart.com/

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          • #50
            Right, I'm out. I'm sorry, but this whole debate has soured me on the boards here for now.

            Have a nice day, all.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by ChastMastr View Post
              Right, I'm out. I'm sorry, but this whole debate has soured me on the boards here for now.

              Have a nice day, all.
              Ok....Why?

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              • #52
                Exactly, the art needs to express the character, which it did. Now she's action girl.

                Originally posted by Ghornet2 View Post
                I have no problem with changing a character's costume or look as long as there's a reason other than 'because we can'. In Vampi's case her look was part of her appeal, not because it was so revealing but because it kind of said up front what you could expect from the character. Dangerous, sexy with no attempt to hide it.

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                • #53
                  G'day,

                  Would it? How many here had ever heard of Nancy Collins prior to Vamprilla? She did some comics back in the 1990's but she's primary known as a novelist. Most writers don't earn much, there would be heaps of talented writers out there willing to work at reasonable rates.

                  Ralph

                  PS, Its good to see DE had the sense not to dump Nancy completely , she will be doing Army of Darkness.


                  Originally posted by shokoshu View Post


                  Sorry to bring you the bad news, but hiring better writers (c'mon, the Dynamite run didn't have exactly bad artists!) would be very very expensive. In contrast, changing the costume is a free lunch. That is, until the rest of the readers run away.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by ralphuniverse View Post
                    G'day,

                    Would it? How many here had ever heard of Nancy Collins prior to Vamprilla? She did some comics back in the 1990's but she's primary known as a novelist. Most writers don't earn much, there would be heaps of talented writers out there willing to work at reasonable rates.

                    Ralph

                    PS, Its good to see DE had the sense not to dump Nancy completely , she will be doing Army of Darkness.

                    I was talking to Peter V Brett, who wrote Red Sonja Blue and Red Sonja Unchained (excellent one shot and mini series), via Facebook the other month and he told me of the sheer resistance of Dynamite changing Sonja out of the bikini and into the fur one piece (something she wore longer than the bikini during Marvels run, until Dynamite took over). I'm curious to what's changed.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by pulphero View Post
                      ...But sure, if we can change Vampirella's costume, then it's fair to put Sue Storm in a thong, right? How's that any different? ....If they're just going to wear one outfit most of the time, then maybe that outfit is some kind of statement about who they are. Therefore, when you radically change their style of dress, you're actually changing who they are, or who they're saying they are to the world.
                      So if Sue Storm's outfit did become a thong, what does that say to the world? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely curious. What statement would that make about who she is, in your opinion? (and part B: If the statement is about fearless independence, as in "I don't care what anyone says, I'll dress however I want" which an earlier post seemed to suggest, then why aren't men given similar "I don't care" costumes?)
                      Last edited by bobrobertson; 10-27-2015, 05:04 PM.

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                      • #56
                        G'day,

                        Well they seem to be putting the same restrictions on male comic book characters as well. Marvel's Hercules is getting pants. The new movie Tarzan won't be wearing a loin cloth and DE's Magnus lost his mini skirt (oops... sorry Pulphero, tunic). If this sort of crap keeps up we will end up with Tarzan running around in a safari suit.

                        In general the art should express the character, Sue Storm is a mature married woman and mother, having her do super hero stuff in a swimsuit would be inappropriate for the character unless she's at the beach. I would be just as annoyed if they had Jennifer Blood run around shooting people in a bikini. Thats just not Jennifer.

                        Ralph


                        Originally posted by bobrobertson View Post
                        So if Sue Storm's outfit did become a thong, what does that say to the world? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely curious. What statement would that make about who she is, in your opinion? (and part B: If the statement is about fearless independence, as in "I don't care what anyone says, I'll dress however I want" which an earlier post seemed to suggest, then why aren't men given similar "I don't care" costumes?)
                        Last edited by ralphuniverse; 10-28-2015, 04:55 AM.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by bobrobertson View Post
                          So if Sue Storm's outfit did become a thong, what does that say to the world? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely curious. What statement would that make about who she is, in your opinion? (and part B: If the statement is about fearless independence, as in "I don't care what anyone says, I'll dress however I want" which an earlier post seemed to suggest, then why aren't men given similar "I don't care" costumes?)
                          Well, it DID happen, briefly in 1993-94 (see the pic Chast posted earlier in this thread) until they came to their senses over there at Marvel, and realized it was out of character for Sue Storm. It was the explained away as being due to the influence of the Psycho-Man.

                          Vampirella's costume isn't about "fashion statements" -- she is who she is. She wasn't raised in human society so she's essentially an outsider. Alien or daughter of the mother of all monsters (Lilith), however you want to look at it. Her world and life is a strange one. She doesn't have a real secret identity, or normal job, just fake aliases from time to time.

                          Sue Storm is a married woman, a wife and mother. Compared to a lot of Marvel's other superwomen, Sue's always been portrayed as conservative, not flashy. She's got more old-fashioned "family values", but that doesn't mean she isn't beautiful, powerful, or fiercely protective of the ones she loves. That doesn't make her any less admirable or heroic as a person -- it's just who she is. Thigh-high boots, big shoulder pads and butt cheeks hanging out just isn't who she is. The '90s was the decade of excess in comics, and they made some mis-steps. Thankfully that look lasted for all of 10 issues or so.

                          Those two women are as different as night and day.
                          Last edited by pulphero; 10-28-2015, 05:05 AM.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by pulphero View Post
                            Those two women are as different as night and day.
                            Ok, I'm trying to explore the idea of how what someone wears makes a statement about that person. So let's take this out of these two particular women.

                            Let's say we're designing a brand new super-heroine from scratch. She's a kick-derriere kind of woman with superpowers, willing to fight criminals and the law in order to bring justice to the world. She wants to wear a spandex outfit as a recognizable symbol to everyone.

                            People stated in this thread that art should express the character, and that an outfit is a statement of who that person is and what that person says she is to the world. My question is what does a thong outfit say? What statement is being made, and what is that woman saying she is? And how does that statement differ from a statement for male characters, or does it?

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                            • #59
                              Spandax? That she likes tight fitting outfits? That she requires cloths with lots of free movement which don't get in the way? Most generic superheros wear tight fitting cloths. It depends on the general story context.

                              ta

                              Ralph

                              Originally posted by bobrobertson View Post
                              Ok, I'm trying to explore the idea of how what someone wears makes a statement about that person. So let's take this out of these two particular women.

                              Let's say we're designing a brand new super-heroine from scratch. She's a kick-derriere kind of woman with superpowers, willing to fight criminals and the law in order to bring justice to the world. She wants to wear a spandex outfit as a recognizable symbol to everyone.

                              People stated in this thread that art should express the character, and that an outfit is a statement of who that person is and what that person says she is to the world. My question is what does a thong outfit say? What statement is being made, and what is that woman saying she is? And how does that statement differ from a statement for male characters, or does it?

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by bobrobertson View Post
                                Ok, I'm trying to explore the idea of how what someone wears makes a statement about that person. So let's take this out of these two particular women.

                                Let's say we're designing a brand new super-heroine from scratch. She's a kick-derriere kind of woman with superpowers, willing to fight criminals and the law in order to bring justice to the world. She wants to wear a spandex outfit as a recognizable symbol to everyone.

                                People stated in this thread that art should express the character, and that an outfit is a statement of who that person is and what that person says she is to the world. My question is what does a thong outfit say? What statement is being made, and what is that woman saying she is? And how does that statement differ from a statement for male characters, or does it?
                                If it's a brand new character, the creators are deciding who she is, and how she's going to appear to the world. They can make her a character who is exactly what she appears to be "What you see is what you get", or design her as a "Don't judge a book by its cover" type of character. That's up to the creators. Maybe she dresses minimally and provocatively to distract her male opponents, or maybe she's from a different culture where attitudes about sexuality and body images are completely different than 21st Century standards of global culture. Or maybe she's choosing designs and colors that are symbolic or represent something, if the creators feel like her costume should show that she represents something - an alien culture, a patriotic motif, colors that reflect her powers - say she has powers of light and heat, then some combination of warm colors like red, orange and yellow would be appropriate. Blue and white if she has freezing powers. Dark colors if she operates by night and wants to blend into the shadows. Bright primary colors if she wants to immediately draw the attention of everyone. Etc.
                                Last edited by pulphero; 10-30-2015, 07:19 AM.

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