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  • Kaleval

    Did anyone notice that he looks very similar to Thor? Besides that it seems strange that nobody has mentioned that the intimate encounter with Sonja could have been about choice. Since the vow stems from rape which negates choice wouldn't reclaiming the right to choose bring the issue full circle in some way.

  • #2
    Uh, I was trying to figure out what you mean but I think I'll just walk away right now. I smell spoilers coming >_<

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    • #3
      Sorry spoilers for issue #15

      sorry I forgot to add that but if you read it the costume looks a bit familiar

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      • #4
        Well all blond gods will enviarably be compared to Thor.

        As for the their coupling...well, both of them could have done a lot worse with their choice in partners.

        Hey this is my 100th post here on DE. Wow I really need a life!

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        • #5
          Having just read this issue, I'm not sure why Sonja took Kal (she took him because none takes Sonja ). I want to say basic primal attraction, but being a story-writer myself, the reasons characters do things is rarely because of why it appears to be.

          I was going to guess "because she hasn't 'gotten any' in decades" but who's to say she hasn't bedded other men before by her own choice?
          Last edited by Dr Nightmare; 11-16-2006, 11:43 PM.

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          • #6
            Sorry to bother you with this, but...

            1. Ok, Kaleval spoke Finnish so his name really should have been Kaleva! ("Kalevala": the -la ending makes it a placename, "Kaleva´s place" (/town/village/land/...) or in plural ("the Place of Kalevas"); well, "Vala" is also Finnish for "Oath", but that´s a coincidence.)

            2. Sonja was raped, brutally, when she was very young, probably just starting to eye the Boys that way. Then she had a religious experience, a deity gave her the power to protect herself against men in the future. It was not some kind of a deal ("You can have all you want, as you soon as you find someone who deserves you!"), but a way to avoid sexual contact forever. To Sonja being bested in combat would mean that the victorious male could have his way with her, violate her again! She is a grown woman, but in this one particular she is still the same frightened teenager; personally I think that if someone were to beat her in combat she would quite possibly fall to pieces, reassuming the role of the victim ("Please, don´t hurt me!" etc.; even the strongest amongst us have our weak points!). So to have her embrace the opportunity with Kaleva(!), take the excuse... That was not being true to the character.

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            • #7
              While we are at it ..

              I like the points made above. But ...

              Has anyone wondered if Sonja met a man that she wanted to lose to. Lets say she cannot sleep with a man unless he beats her if even by choice. How torn would she be in trying to throw the fight. Sure perhaps he is not as good as she with a sword perhaps only equal to her. But he could be considered special in other ways that she alone values. A women like a male does have those needs, few if any can deny an urge for too long.

              As for her losing to this god / person. In my mind I just try to play it off as him using god like powers into seducing her into thinking she was making that choice. What if weeks later she reflects and becomes aware of the fact she manipulated.

              I also love the twist if she loses and is taken by force. This would lead into another good plot line of her trying to find her own inner strength, this time with out a goddess coming to help her. Keep in mind I do love heroine peril.

              Sonja in my mind has always been the greatest heroine created. I would love to see a more softer gentler side to her though. In the original comics I felt she had a more honor about her. Latetly I feel she is sort of an arrogant jerk. I do have to admit I stopped reading most of the issues after issue 13'ish so perhaps she has changed. Sort of waiting on the side lines for that major ground breaking issue.

              If I sound like an idiot, forgive me.

              My two cents,
              Kristi

              Comment


              • #8


                Originally posted by pvehk
                Sorry to bother you with this, but...

                (etc.)
                Gudday pvehk! Welcome to the Dynamite Forums! (Unfortunately the only Finnish words I know are "Suomi" and "Valmet", so I'm more than happy to take your word on it! ).



                Originally posted by valsha
                I like the points made above. But ...

                (etc.)

                If I sound like an idiot, forgive me.

                My two cents,
                Kristi
                Hey Kristi! No forgiveness needed - I see no idiocy there!


                Tommy.
                Aussie Aussie Aussie! Oi Oi Oi!

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                • #9
                  I know, but you never know how a flamer may act.

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                  • #10


                    Originally posted by valsha
                    I know, but you never know how a flamer may act.
                    Ah - true. That kinda behaviour never ceases to amaze me...


                    Tommy.
                    Aussie Aussie Aussie! Oi Oi Oi!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I would agree that Sonja did have a gentler side in her previous incarnations and that has not showed up as much in this current series, but i dont think shes that much of a jerk.

                      I think she hasnt really been humbled either. Fighting a god doesnt count because she, or anyone else, can't win that fight anyway. I'd like to see her swordmanship actualy put to the test more often.

                      As far as Kaleval, i don't care for the character that much because he didnt amount to much. He might as well have been a hyborian Fabio. I'll be interested to see what her long term feelings for him are.

                      As for the vowe itself, i dont think it means she can simply be raped by any guy that can beat her, but rather that she can be with men, but only men that can beat her fairly, and thus show themselves to be worthy of recieving her.

                      I believe that is how the godess puts it in the origin story of giant size red sonja.

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                      • #12
                        The vow and jerkitude

                        Yeah I've stated how that at sometimes that Sonja comes across as just another Conan in drag and that too much has been made of her destructive side and not her reason or empathetic nature. If carnage is all the character is about then there should be transparency especally in regards to her wardrobe. Don't explain it just own it as having you're cheesecake because the flimsy explaination of a "battle tactic" is as absurd as helmeted Spartans in speedos and as far as arrogance goes metal drawers make a terrible coup stick.

                        As for the vow I see it as a symbol of worthiness not unlike Thor's hammer you better bring you're A game if you want the prize which incidently isn't her heart merely her body. Which considering her background isn't sold cheaply.

                        Anyone notice that she has few if any female friends. Seems that the Kill Bill myth that women can't be true sisters is kinda tacitly played out here. If she's a loner it makes sense if not then maybe a little more understanding for the common woman especially in then Hyborean era should be shown. that explains my dissappointment in the sniper story not every girl gets there one congress physical or otherwise with the gods and certainly not twice.

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                        • #13


                          My apologies in advance guys. I'd promised myself I wouldn't buy into another circular discussion on this particular topic, as in my own opinion they consist mainly of lukewarm air (or at least the last one here did). But, I'm being left scratching my head over a number of generalised opinions being advanced which really ought to be expressed and supported a lot better if they're to be sustained much farther.

                          Provided the discussion does not get out of hand (a long way off at this stage), this will likely be the only real contribution I make to it for now. My aim here is not to upset or anger, but to try to coax and encourage...



                          Originally posted by tonto
                          Yeah I've stated how that at sometimes that Sonja comes across as just another Conan in drag...
                          I've not noticed this trend at all. If by this you mean a facile caricature of Conan, albeit with tits, then I disagree. Perhaps you could provide some examples?


                          Originally posted by tonto
                          ...and that too much has been made of her destructive side and not her reason or empathetic nature.
                          Not everyone is inclined to possess these qualities in great measure. Still fewer are inclined to demonstrate them consistently.


                          Originally posted by tonto
                          If carnage is all the character is about then there should be transparency especally in regards to her wardrobe. Don't explain it just own it as having you're cheesecake because the flimsy explaination of a "battle tactic" is as absurd as helmeted Spartans in speedos and as far as arrogance goes metal drawers make a terrible coup stick.
                          Who is to say this is a zero-sum? In any case, plenty of helmeted Greeks/Romans/etc. are known/believed to have fought with no pants at all, so I don't really see the point here...


                          Originally posted by tonto
                          As for the vow I see it as a symbol of worthiness not unlike Thor's hammer you better bring you're A game if you want the prize which incidently isn't her heart merely her body. Which considering her background isn't sold cheaply.
                          Fair enough. But I assume we're not talking about an automaton here, so we can likely infer a degree of choice concerning how cheaply and to whom...


                          Originally posted by tonto
                          Anyone notice that she has few if any female friends.
                          This is by no means uncommon amongst girls at all.


                          Originally posted by tonto
                          Seems that the Kill Bill myth that women can't be true sisters is kinda tacitly played out here. If she's a loner it makes sense if not then maybe a little more understanding for the common woman especially in then Hyborean era should be shown. that explains my dissappointment in the sniper story...
                          This is by no means obvious or even borne out in the real world. Why should it be required of a cartoon character?


                          Originally posted by tonto
                          ...not every girl gets there one congress physical or otherwise with the gods and certainly not twice.
                          Who's to say?


                          Tommy.
                          Aussie Aussie Aussie! Oi Oi Oi!

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                          • #14
                            Also remember that sonja has shown some signs of kindness.

                            Her treatment of the young girl in arrowsmith, and the sailor in the issue 7 one shot show her concern and kindness to others, though in her own way.

                            Also she does feel bad about her companions dieing, even in the queen of the frozen wastes mini.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Tommy you always make me think and usually rethink my opinoins. I'll stand by the vow though. But some of that was just a knee-jerk reaction to mostly traditionally held views of women in the media. As for the Conan in drag thing I meant that she could be viewed as another hardly-dressed, near invincible adventurer that usually fights or gets drunk and little else. There is very little of the farm girl left in her. But MAO has balanced out most of her traits nicely. I never said that she wasn't complex just sometimes I tend to forget. Still think she could use a few gal pals. As a whole though you are more likely to see the chick fight than bonding nowadays.

                              Lukewarm come on you know I'm full blown Hot air.

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