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One-Shot - Vacant Shell...

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  • One-Shot - Vacant Shell...




    Just got my copy of this one. Goddamn you guys're gunna love the art! This is the first of Renaud's work that I've seen, other than his two recent Sonja covers. WOW. Seriously. I definitely want to be seeing more Sonja issues from Renaud - this first is beautiful!


    Tommy.
    Aussie Aussie Aussie! Oi Oi Oi!

  • #2
    It's almost as if Sonja is dancing as she killing those guys. Very nice.

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    • #3
      I'm looking forward to it. But my LCS has been skipping my last two Red Sonja's ST and Giant Size. Is that Diamond's fault?
      Comic2read

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      • #4
        Very nice.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Comic2read
          I'm looking forward to it. But my LCS has been skipping my last two Red Sonja's ST and Giant Size. Is that Diamond's fault?
          Sounds like your LCS didn't order it. Diamond makes mistakes at my local shop occasionally, but they usually correct the mistake in the following week's shipment.

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          • #6
            http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?p=3660821

            PREVIEW PAGES !!!





            Last edited by boomvavavoom; 05-10-2007, 04:42 AM.

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            • #7
              Wow! Awesome art!!!

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              • #8
                I was really, really looking forward to this, but I'm pretty bummed-out after getting this today.

                The story's great, the colours are fabulous and I love one-shots, but Paul Renaud's swiping is atrocious -- as is some of his drawing when he's splicing different figures together is just plain bad.

                Lying in the Gutterscovered his swiping Brian Stelfreeze before, and I really don't feel like going through my collection to do comparisons between this issue and the variety of Hughes, Cho, Stelfreeze and other possible sources (Cassaday, Hitch. . .).

                The really bad one for me, and probably what prompted this, was his really, really bad drawing in the third from last page:
                For clarity: These aren't demonstrations of swipes, but of his errors in placement of the features on otherwise well-drawn figures; the implication of this is that he swiped the figures from another source and was unable to reconstruct the features.

                The inability to place the features on Sonja's head in the third and fourth panels and how small her head is in the fifth call into question, at least for me, whether or not this guy can draw without swiping someone else. Perhaps this page is merely so egregious because it was near the end and he was running out of steam.

                Flipping back through the book I see more of this, though. I hope Renaud takes the time to learn how to draw on his own before taking his next assignment.

                I realise I'm probably shooting myself in the foot here since I would like the opportunity to do something with Dynamite and Red Sonja at some point, but I just can't help feeling like everyone else involved in this project was ripped off in some way, including the readers.

                ~Richard
                Last edited by Richard Pace; 05-10-2007, 10:08 PM.

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                • #9


                  (*For those who have not yet read the issue - no, the above picture is not a page with Xeroxed panels - it's a single page, the original above and an enlarged version, I think retouched by Richard, spliced immediately below*) - Tommy.

                  Originally posted by Richard Pace
                  I was really, really looking forward to this, but I'm pretty bummed-out after getting this today.

                  The story's great, the colours are fabulous and I love one-shots, but Paul Renaud's swiping is atrocious -- as is some of his drawing when he's splicing different figures together is just plain bad.

                  Lying in the Gutterscovered his swiping Brian Stelfreeze before, and I really don't feel like going through my collection to do comparisons between this issue and the variety of Hughes, Cho, Stelfreeze and other possible sources (Cassaday, Hitch. . .).

                  The really bad one for me, and probably what prompted this, was his really, really bad drawing in the third from last page:
                  ...

                  The inability to place the features on Sonja's head in the third and fourth panels and how small her head is in the fifth call into question, at least for me, whether or not this guy can draw without swiping someone else. Perhaps this page is merely so egregious because it was near the end and he was running out of steam.

                  Flipping back through the book I see more of this, though. I hope Renaud takes the time to learn how to draw on his own before taking his next assignment.

                  I realise I'm probably shooting myself in the foot here since I would like the opportunity to do something with Dynamite and Red Sonja at some point, but I just can't help feeling like everyone else involved in this project was ripped off in some way, including the readers.

                  ~Richard

                  Hey Richard!

                  No, I wouldn't say you're shooting yourself in the foot at all! In my opinion, the quality of your work speaks for itself, and hearing your opinion on the work of others is something I not only find interesting but enjoy.

                  I had noticed the similarities between some of the panels/figures in this issue. Like you, my brow tends to furrow at this, and I'd truly prefer artists did not resort to it, although I realise that for some it is routine, and indeed a feature of their style. I took the placement of features in these panels and the head-size in the fifth to represent an attempt to portray features from a low-angle - though I do prefer the job you've done with re-touching these.

                  In terms of similarity to the work of others, I tend to find the degree of imitation to be extremely high along the entire length of the comic store wall. To me, many artists begin by imitating the style of others whose work inspires them (hell, that's what got me drawing cartoons as a kid!), or go through later phases where their work closely resembles that of a peer. I would not be at all surprised should he have done so here. In terms of his style, it brings to my mind no other artist that I'm familiar with. However, the example you've provided in the swipe-link from an earlier unrelated title is, I agree, disturbing.

                  I'm sure we can expect more and greater things from Paul Renaud. Though I agree with some of your points here Richard, I do love this first example from him of Red Sonja and definitely want to see more. Like any artist of promise, I think that as he progresses he'll certainly improve further.


                  Tommy.
                  Aussie Aussie Aussie! Oi Oi Oi!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think overall the art was pretty good, although I admit I skimmed through it and didn't pick it up. It would be nice to think that someone shouldn't swipe, but they all swipe, even from themselves. It's just a matter of how well it tells the story.

                    And it's you that have problem understanding perspective with the head size in that panel, if you are talking about the one you are showing with the low angle. There is nothing wrong with that perspective. And I am pretty good with perspective since I work occassional with 3D models that allow you to twist and turn a character every which way.

                    To be blunt, you don't have the skills to make thost criticisms. I glanced at your web page, and you have a long ways to go.

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                    • #11
                      wow...cool down man.

                      If Renaud is swiping his own stuff that is HIS thing...

                      Jim Lee, Turner, Tucci...EVERYONE does that!! EVERYONE!!!

                      But if Renaud needs to learn to do it in a góód way -according to my namesake above- then that is just the case I guess.

                      sincerely

                      Richard Boom

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                      • #12
                        I wasn't talking about Renaud swiping his own stuff (using the same head from panel 3 for 4), I'm talking about him using someone else's drawing of the figure for panel three and his inability to place the features (probably from another artist, or another drawing by the same one) in the proper perspective on the face. It's a mistake he repeats in the next panel, so it can't be dismissed as just one bad drawing from deadline pressure.

                        The angle doesn't drop significantly enough in the 5th panel from panel 3 for the perspective to foreshorten her head so much from the previous panel. He just didn't know what size to draw the head there and drew it too small.

                        ~R

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                        • #13
                          Paul, check this out. This guy has been trying to diss your work suggesting you're swiping on regular basis without an exemple (of course!).
                          He has clearly an agenda. God bless these frustrated artists! Don't know if you give a **** bout this, but at least you'll have a good laugh.
                          And check his artblog!!!!!
                          Best part :"I realise I'm probably shooting myself in the foot here since I would like the opportunity to do something with Dynamite and Red Sonja at some point, but I just can't help feeling like everyone else involved in this project was ripped off in some way, including the readers."
                          Hilarious.
                          Everytime your name is mentioned, this guy pops up.
                          I may have missed a few but there you go:

                          http://www.dynamiteentertainment.com...read.php?t=744
                          Topic: *FLASH: The Devil and The Dead!*
                          02-21-2007, 06:36 PM
                          Richard Pace :
                          I like the guy's work, apart from the regular swiping, I mean. Adam Hughes' clones generally have a much higher bar to reach than, say, Rob Liefeld's.

                          http://www.dynamiteentertainment.com...read.php?t=882
                          Topic: Red Sonja 25 - Cover Art Pol
                          04-25-2007, 04:26 PM
                          Richard Pace :
                          Had to go for the Adams cover. Renaud's is nice, I'm sure I'll really start loving his work when he's working his own path more than following Hughes's, though.
                          Hello Richard,

                          your rantings about my work have been brought to my attention by Eric here, a fellow artist and friend.

                          I thought I could drop in and say hi. I'll do my best to stay polite.
                          You wrote: "The story's great, the colours are fabulous and I love one-shots, but Paul Renaud's swiping is atrocious".
                          As we can see in Eric's mail, it's not the first time you're implying that my work is swiping.
                          It's offending, and uncalled for.


                          The only exemple you produce is the LITG file from Tuesday January 16, 2007...showing this unpublished page from 2003 (before I became pro).
                          You clearly saved that LITG file and tried to imply all my work is swipe from then on.
                          Of course, I explained the situation when this "swipefile" was produced in january. But you probably forgot to mention it here.

                          "... basically that's why this page was never supposed to be published.
                          And it stayed unpublished.
                          It was just a test page for me to get familiar with the kind of action I wanted to see in that project (Century01). I needed to show my friend -writer of the book- the kind of action scene I wanted for a book we were planning to do.
                          Just between me and him. It was not supposed to get included in the book in any way(....) I didn't mean this page to be of a dishonest use and take the blame for this. I should have been more carefull in keeping this unseen."

                          The book was never done since I stepped away from the project early on. The page where these two figures are swiped was posted on my website because I wasn't careful enough. You can read the whole discussion here (and see the original Stelfreeze pages where the two figures were taken from): http://www.theartofcomics.com/renaud...opic.php?t=224
                          YES, the two figures were swiped, and I took the blame for it.

                          In the rest of your message, you're just insulting me by suggesting without a proof that I can't draw without swiping. You have absolutely no evidence of that. Just a vague feeling about these 3 panels at the end of the book. We just have to believe you because you're such a great artist.
                          I won't say what I think of your art on a public forum. I've got manners.

                          I don't think this figure on page 30 is the best I've ever drawn. I thank you very much for being such a nice person in noticing that here, in such a gentle way. By the end of the book I was drawing 1 page and a half a day. I'm not proud of ALL the drawings in that book (of 32 pages), but it's the down side of having to deliver the work on time.
                          Every pro knows what I'm talking about.
                          On that page (page 30) I knew I had to go fast because I wanted the grand finale not to be rushed.
                          I did my best, and certainly will do better next time.
                          Now, what you're calling a swipe from panel 1 to 2, is called a zoom.
                          Also I will sometime use the same face or background from one page to another, it helps go faster and helps to keep the character "on model" along the pages.
                          Finally, as bad and rushed away as was my take on this figure, your "corrections" are no better.
                          You must feel very clever doing that kind of tweaking with photoshop (the kind of tweaking I did not have the time to do because of the deadline). I wonder what you would say if someone else did that to your work. Just to show you "how better" it could be.
                          You must learn to behave. This is not the way of an artist.

                          About the Adam Hughes part.
                          I love Adam's work, and I've always been proud to be compared to him. I'm nothing compared to the giant he is. In short, I'm a big fan. He's clearly an influence in the way I draw Sonja (and also Cavewoman). I'm the product of my influences like everybody else, not ashamed of that.

                          But the rest, meaning 90% of what a book is made of, all the casts, backgrounds, objects..storytelling and coloring...you should be able to see he's not the main influence here. I have major influences that you haven't heard of. Each new job calls for a different approach. You just look at the girls.
                          And you chose to call me a clone repeatedly, on purpose..

                          I would suggest you spend more time on YOUR art instead of spending so much dissing mine.
                          For an artist, I find your attitude revolting.

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                          • #14
                            Thanks to the other members for their very nice comments. I'm very happy that you like the book. Feels good to know that you like my Sonja.
                            I did my best to please you.

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                            • #15
                              Some of the art does feel rushed and if there is anything in the world that won't come to full potention due to time constraints it's art. I would've agreed w/ most of what you(richard) say except I think your "optimizations" aren't doing you any favors either, specifically the first panel is horrid. I can clearly see the gray blub. Either way, this was neither the form nor the manner to go about this. Respect earns respect, mud slinging earns you a shot foot, hopefully.

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