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  • re: BOOSTER GOLD: FUTURES END - a nexus point perhaps, between FUTURES END and WORLD'S END, bridging to May 2015's BLOOD MOON. FYI, it also directly references the events of the last N52 issue of JUSTICE LEAGUE INTERNATIONAL... (and surely they couldn't have been thinking of an un-reboot THAT early in the game...) It's slim evidence of any pre-N52 resurgence, or even a reboot at all... wouldn't get my hopes up too high. You might get something like the minor adjustments made in the wake of INFINITE CRISIS, but I doubt any total makeover is in the offing. Perhaps you might see a new Booster Gold book with him as more of a multiversal time-traveller. Man, I loved that series when it was revived by Geoff Johns and Dan Jurgens... and then Keith Giffen came along and kind of ruined it. But then Dan came back and did the TIME MASTERS: VANISHING POINT series, so at least things ended on a high note. Booster's kind of pointless as a time-traveller in the New 52, other than as a convenient plot device in ALL STAR WESTERN, because there's no longer any DCU history worth revisiting, taking all the fun out of it.

    re: SUPERMAN DOOMED - didn't flip through it. I'll check out the last pages next time I'm in the comic shop.

    re: ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN - Steve RUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUDE!!!! And the REAL, true Jack Kirby OMAC! Awesomesauce~!

    These were the only DCs I actually bought this week - Booster, JLDark, Batman '66 and AoS. I read G.I. ZOMBIE... not completely sold on the book yet, but it's OK... I'll see where it goes.
    Last edited by pulphero; 09-25-2014, 12:41 AM.

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    • Originally posted by ChastMastr View Post
      Please, no spoilers here--I'd like for me and others to be able to post on this thread without getting stories spoiled that are out recently.

      That said...

      I think Pulphero, and those of us who long for classic-style DC, should check out both Booster Gold: Futures' End and the final page of Superman: Doomed as soon as possible.

      I won't say more. But I have increasing hope.
      I've seen that final page online, but I can't help thinking it's going to be a cruel trick to fill us with false hope...

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      • If DC did something like make the New 52 into their Ultimate Universe, but had a more classic alternative, I'd be fine with that. I've been quite happy to mostly ignore Marvel's Ultimate Universe.

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        • Originally posted by ChastMastr View Post
          If DC did something like make the New 52 into their Ultimate Universe, but had a more classic alternative, I'd be fine with that.
          If they go that route (PLEASE), it would be a nice touch if they brought back some of the old logos to seperate the universes/worlds. A variation on the 40's logo for Earth 2, the classic DC bullet for one etc. Supposedly one of the reasons for the new 2 was reader confusion because of the different versions of superman etc. Logos would help prevent that to some extent.

          For those who came in late.
          http://on.cbr.cc/1ps3UuE

          Multiple worlds would open up all sorts of possible stories as well as being a nice present to all of us who felt cast to the side with the new 52. Personally I felt that to many of the characters were twisted into something wlse for no reason. Part of the fun of Captain Marvel was that he ws so whitebread/innocent. Now he's more like Black Adam from what little I could bring myself to read.
          Always remember, Murphy was an optimist
          Munchkin 1, 2, 4, 7 Super Munchkin 1&2, Munchkin Bites 1&2, Munchkin Fu, Star Munchkin Deluxe and Star 2
          http://ghornet.deviantart.com/

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          • Originally posted by Ghornet2 View Post
            For those who came in late.
            http://on.cbr.cc/1ps3UuE
            OK, now I'm curious as to what that page has to do with FUTURES END #22. Guess we'll find out next week, so I should have a chance to read the Superman FE one-shot before then. I was surprised to find that one is a direct tie-in to events of the weekly -- chalk it up to the fact that Dan Jurgens is writing the Superman-related parts of the weekly, I guess.

            I fear these sort of things appearing in DC right now are JUST a tease, leading to nothing in particular. Some of these characters may show up in BLOOD MOON as opponents in the various COUNTDOWN: ARENA-style faceoffs, but what of it? They're sort of repeating themselves with that plot, not that different from the online INFINITE CRISIS game. At this point, all it's really representative of is a confirmation of what we already know from Morrison's MULTIVERSITY, by putting some familiar faces on some of those 52 Earths that won't be seen within Morrison's series, but have already been glimpsed in some DC titles like ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN, SENSATION COMICS, BATMAN '66, and SCOOBY DOO TEAM-UP. Even though you see a lot of things that look pre-COIE or whatever, it reminds me of the post-INFINITE CRISIS "return to Earth-2" that Power Girl had in JUSTICE SOCIETY... things LOOKED the same, but were NOT the same. I can't really see this as leading to any separate line of pre-New 52 comics. I'd almost have believed it if they'd done this sort of thing a year or two into the New 52, but now? Not really. DiDio, Lee and Harris are still in charge, so I expect things at DC to continue in a 1995 WildStorm/Marvel mode (with The Dark titles melding the Vertigo influence), with somewhat better artwork (although recent ads for BATGIRL and GOTHAM ACADEMY seem to be adding a little "Marvel NOW" to the line). You might be more likely to see a new CAPTAIN CARROT comic book.

            Believe me, even though the WORLD'S END is virtually confirmed (via a DC editorial page) for EARTH 2, I'd like nothing better than to see the FUTURES END for the New 52-Earth (even if I had to wait until 2019 for it to happen)... I certainly can't see that happening in May 2015, though. DC has pretty much crushed any hopes I ever harbored about respecting its own history as a company. That went out the door when Paul Levitz cleaned out his office. I don't blame Johns, he does what his bosses tell him -- or ALLOW him -- to do, and collects his paycheck for his ceremonial title. He's kind of like Bendis now -- he knows what story gimmicks drive sales, and exploits them with mercenary skill; that's what he's paid to do. Maybe they'll allow him the gift of a new JSA title closely resembling the original... MAYBE, if his bosses are feeling in a generous mood and his 'architect' skills aren't judged to be more valuably needed elsewhere. I might trust James Robinson to do it, although it's my understanding that he's either burnt some bridges or feels like he's been burned himself at DC, and may be (not sure) under exclusive contract to Marvel at this point. It doesn't seem coincidental that his departure from DC was concurrent with DC's cancellation of Paul Levitz' Legion, either... sort of clearing the decks of last vestiges of that old-school fanboy writing-style stuff that the New DC wants no part of. I guess Robinson tried to follow the New DC game plan when it came to EARTH 2, but he felt like he was being dicked around with in terms of creative control, an increasingly common complaint as creators exited the New DC. I sort of doubt they'd give a JSA title to Levitz, either. They probably can't mess with him TOO obviously, but I think they're just waiting for him to throw in the towel and retire, and I can't see anyone else besides Johns, Robinson or Levitz doing it and it being worth squat.

            I have not got a clue as to how Dan Jurgens has managed to last as long as he has at DC. Maybe he's just the most accommodating guy in the universe and just charms all the bosses with his ability to conform to anything they require. Guys like him and Johns are talented and are great when they have the freedom to follow their own natural instincts, but that's damn near impossible to do within the rebooted continuity of the New 52, when they can't play with those bits of older DC history and continuity that they are so great at. Too bad there couldn't be an ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN book by Dan Jurgens. It's cancelled now, and in any case, I don't think the page rates on those digital first titles are commensurate with the experience Jurgens has; he's got bills to pay, too. Either way, #18 was the last issue. Glad we got to see one last Steve Rude (possibly the most UNappreciated artist in the industry) Superman story. But the thing is, Rude's got artistic scruples, things he won't do for a buck, same as Alex Ross, only without the kind of following Alex Ross can command. I'd love to see Mike Allred doing BATMAN '66, too, and I bet he would if the page rate could match what he's getting to do SILVER SURFER (which, let's face it, can't last forever, good as it is).
            Last edited by pulphero; 09-26-2014, 07:34 AM.

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            • "Blood Moon" event (May/June 2015)

              Anyone who's interested in this thing, there's a nice summary of everything known about the 2-month DC event, replacing the regular DC titles in May and June next year:
              http://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/09/...event-of-2015/

              It's a little longish, so if you don't feel like reading the whole thing, here's a summary of Bleeding Cool's summary:

              -Event edited by Tom DeFalco.
              -8-issue weekly series, written by Scott Lobdell.
              -20 two-issue "versus" titles, pitting characters from different Earths in the DC multiverse against each other (it's not clear whether these would be battles of direct parallel-universe counterparts [i.e. "Flash vs. Flash"] or some more random character combination).
              -(48 issues total, over 2 months).
              -Event spins out of the concluding issues of NEW 52 FUTURES END and EARTH 2: WORLD'S END (last week in April 2015).

              -The event was dreamed up by Dan DiDio to cover a 2 month period, while DC moves its corporate offices from New York to Los Angeles, during which none of the regular New 52 titles will be published.
              -There seems to be some confusion regarding whether or not any New 52 characters will even appear in the series. At one point it's said that they won't, and at another that they will. That's sort of an interesting point, though. If none of the New 52 characters appear here, the event can have no effect on the New 52 universe... and that might be exactly what they want, a space-filler with no effect on any New 52 DC comics published subsequent to the move to the West Coast.
              -Rich Johnson's theory is that Brainiac (who's the main villain in FUTURES END, along with OMAC) has shrunk various Earths of the multiverse and collected them as "bottled Earths" (similar to the "Bottle City of Kandor").
              -In the FUTURES END weekly, OMAC is said to have been created by Bruce Wayne, but there's some indication that Mr. Terrific had something to do with it as well. It may well turn out here that Brainiac has merged with OMAC, or taken it over somehow, and they become one and the same.
              -It's not clear whether the event is taking place after the events in FUTURES END (which is to say, in a post-2019 alternate future tangent of the New 52 universe) or in the present, nor on which Earth (or Earths) the battles are taking place. Even if the New 52 universe got rebooted at the end of FUTURES END, they could still publish New 52 comics for another 5 years, but that's only if FUTURES END is the real, actual future of the New 52 DCU, and not some "alternate future" timeline that winds up being averted, as I suspect it will be.
              Last edited by pulphero; 09-27-2014, 04:24 AM.

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              • Originally posted by tony ingram View Post
                I've seen that final page online, but I can't help thinking it's going to be a cruel trick to fill us with false hope...
                Or a 2-month break from the New 52 in which old-school DC fans get to indulge their nostalgia. Take what you can get, which is more than they've given us in the past 3 years.

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                • Originally posted by ChastMastr View Post
                  If DC did something like make the New 52 into their Ultimate Universe, but had a more classic alternative, I'd be fine with that. I've been quite happy to mostly ignore Marvel's Ultimate Universe.
                  Do you honestly think DC would reduce the New 52 to a handful of titles, while resurrecting the pre-Flashpoint DCU for the bulk of their titles? Just like that? Pretend the last 3+ years never happened? I can't even see a handful of pre-Flashpoint titles happening. I can't see that there's any way of going back at this point. Even if there were another hard reboot, I bet what you'd get is something halfway between the two, a merger.
                  Last edited by pulphero; 09-27-2014, 04:59 AM.

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                  • Originally posted by pulphero View Post
                    Do you honestly think DC would reduce the New 52 to a handful of titles, while resurrecting the pre-Flashpoint DCU for the bulk of their titles? Just like that? Pretend the last 3+ years never happened? I can't even see a handful of pre-Flashpoint titles happening. I can't see that there's any way of going back at this point. Even if there were another hard reboot, I bet what you'd get is something halfway between the two, a merger.
                    So long as we got the Golden Age characters and their history back, I'd be happy.

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                    • Originally posted by pulphero View Post
                      Do you honestly think DC would reduce the New 52 to a handful of titles, while resurrecting the pre-Flashpoint DCU for the bulk of their titles? Just like that? Pretend the last 3+ years never happened?
                      I can see them going with the new 52 being the 'main universe' and the pre-52 plus being the offshoot. Sort of like the Vertigo line, but with the 'classic' versions of the characters. Or maybe the Multiversity with several world involved.
                      Always remember, Murphy was an optimist
                      Munchkin 1, 2, 4, 7 Super Munchkin 1&2, Munchkin Bites 1&2, Munchkin Fu, Star Munchkin Deluxe and Star 2
                      http://ghornet.deviantart.com/

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                      • Originally posted by Ghornet2 View Post
                        I can see them going with the new 52 being the 'main universe' and the pre-52 plus being the offshoot. Sort of like the Vertigo line, but with the 'classic' versions of the characters. Or maybe the Multiversity with several world involved.
                        Would you settle for a 2-part crossover story with Justice League every summer? That's closer to the scope of realism.

                        JSA - that could possibly happen once EARTH 2 is overrun by Darkseid, but I wouldn't expect any books that would compete with the big JL icons of the New 52. MAYBE some kind of digital-first title to replace Adventures of Superman... Not 100% convinced they'd allow Johns to "waste" his valuable time writing JSA, but maybe he's earned the brownie points by now.

                        Just read the mentioned Superman Doomsday story... really, VRIL DOX? We're going to let him re-create the universe? And expect better results than we got from DiDio and Lee (who, of course, are NOT being rebooted)...? Maybe things would have been better off if we'd just let Parallax go ahead and do it back in Zero Hour. At least his heart seemed to be in the right place, even if he was willing to kill everyone to do it. Just can't see any of this happening with Bob Harris as EIC, and I'm not sure I'd want to. The MAIN problem here is, with the people in charge, even if they brought back classic costumes, origins, and history, I don't think these guys would have a clue about how to handle the characters, that they'd be smart enough to hire the people who really love those versions, and be true to them. I can't even believe that anyone seriously thinks all the readers who moved on are going to come flooding back in droves, bringing new readers in tow with them, who have all just been sitting around patiently waiting on their piles of money for all this New 52 nonsense to wither and die. Why weren't all these people shoveling their money in DC's direction before Flashpoint?

                        Well, I guess I'll believe it when I see DiDio's publishorial apology to all the pre-52 DC readers, but not before.
                        Last edited by pulphero; 09-27-2014, 06:17 PM.

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                        • Originally posted by pulphero View Post

                          Just read the mentioned Superman Doomsday story... really, VRIL DOX?
                          I haven't read it yet, just seen that one page, I keep asking for no spoilers...

                          (I mean, he looks Brainiac-ish but I don't know that it's any version of Vril Dox. Heck, I just read Doomed pt. 1 and found it annoying that Lois just has these powers (not explained in-story, which ticks me off--at least one line of throwaway dialogue would have been nice) which I vaguely know are connected to the New 52 Brainiac somehow, so if this is related PLEASE DON'T TELL ME, OK?)
                          Last edited by ChastMastr; 09-27-2014, 10:03 PM.

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                          • Originally posted by pulphero View Post
                            Do you honestly think DC would reduce the New 52 to a handful of titles, while resurrecting the pre-Flashpoint DCU for the bulk of their titles? Just like that? Pretend the last 3+ years never happened? I can't even see a handful of pre-Flashpoint titles happening. I can't see that there's any way of going back at this point. Even if there were another hard reboot, I bet what you'd get is something halfway between the two, a merger.

                            No, I mean it would be like the Ultimate and main MUs because they'd be side by side but one would be much darker, grimmer, and (quotes deliberate) "mature" than the other. They can publish 52,000 New 52 books and 5 classic-style ones and at least I'd have the classic-style ones.

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                            • Re BC (which I don't trust or read): Tom DeFalco, yay; Scott Lobdell, yikes. I'll stick with buying the books by creators I like, though editing won't be enough for me to trust Lobdell's writing.

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                              • It's too bad Grant Morrison is moving on to creator-owned work after Multiversity and Wonder Woman: Earth One (at least, that's my understanding), because I sure wouldn't mind seeing a revived All Star Superman series as a replacement for Adventures of Superman (and it would certainly sell better as well). Even if Frank Quitely wasn't available, and they got someone like Chris Burnham or Cameron Stewart to draw it. I think in order to make something "classic" DC sell, it would have to be a creative team driven title like that.

                                But of course, having a couple of "alternative to the New 52" titles out there, even if in the 'classic DCU' mold, isn't going to recreate the feel of a once line-wide DC Universe, because it will never be the MAIN universe again, and would never have the depth or complexity of the pre-Flashpoint DCU. But I honestly think something like that, or a similar book featuring something close to a classic Wonder Woman or JLA (which still wouldn't be exactly the pre-New 52 DCU) would be the luckiest you could get as far as retro-ish DCU. Hoping for something like a separate DC imprint with 5 or 6 titles with interactive continuity in a classic-style DCU is just a fanboy daydream.

                                I honestly think something like a lone JSA book in its own universe is the best hope, because I know that's something that Geoff Johns would like to have happen, too -- maybe even if he didn't have the time to write it himself. The bottom line is I really don't think it's his call, unless DiDio, Lee and Harris allow it... and they've evidenced no love for that sort of thing, or at least not the slightest confidence that such a book would sell. Anything with history, legacy, nostalgia... these guys honed in on that specific stuff with a scalpel and completely gutted it out of their concept of a DC Universe when cobbling together the New 52. I don't see the hand of "Chief Creative Officer" Johns in there anywhere, except in promoting Cyborg to the big League, and reconstructing Aquaman. Only Paul Levitz was given a pass for LSH, because he was the former publisher and because the LSH had been (mostly) UNrebooted only recently before in the wake of Final Crisis, or going back to Geoff Johns' Action Comics run, depending on how you want to look at it.

                                I think Johns was rewarded with his grandiose but ultimately meaningless title based on Lee and DiDio acknowledging that his revamping of moribund DC properties SOLD in the pre-52 DCU, and revitalized things, without them REALLY understanding what his main attraction was, that ability to go back to basic classic elements and rejigger them in a new configuration. So he gets to do stuff, but only as long as it fits within the circumscribed vision of Lee's Wildstorm-style take on what's cool about comics, and DiDio's vision of same. Then there's Harris, whose Marvel Editor-In-Chief reign in the '90s produced some of the worst Marvel stuff ever. Years before Bendis wrecked the classic Avengers with DISASSEMBLED, Harris did it first with stuff like THE CROSSING and TIMESLIDE. "Teen Tony Stark"... good lord.

                                The REAL reason Johns takes the paycheck and puts up with the New 52 comics end of the work is that he gets to play on the media end of things, and that's where he's actively engaged at this point. Lee and DiDio have him ball-and-chained to the New 52 now, but I sense that Johns would like nothing better than to make his escape to the media projects division and become DC's answer to Avi Arad. One big media property blockbuster would be all it takes to justify his worth on that end to the Warner corporate honchos (right now, he's still laboring under their watchful eye in the wake of the taint of the Green Lantern movie fiasco), allowing him to escape the vile servitude of Lee & DiDio... then when he deigned to make an occasional return to comics, he could call all his own shots and cherry-pick his own characters and projects. It's going to be a challenge for Johns, because Michael Uslan seems to have the live-action Bat-franchise rights locked up in perpetuity. Now that Nolan seems to be out of the picture, I don't know if Johns could work with Uslan or not, but it's interesting to look at BATMAN: EARTH ONE, because it reads almost like a modern movie reboot of the franchise; probably any Johns-driven Batfilm treatment would hinge on the right director. More likely Johns will have to mine the rest of the DC pantheon for his blockbuster to solidify his position with Warner. We'll have to see how the Shazam! movie pans out; I suspect that one faces an uphill battle with moviegoers. Then again, who knows? I would have thought Guardians of the Galaxy would have sunk like a stone based on the trailer, so there's no accounting for movie audiences. I don't know what they've got planned for Shazam!, but my advice would be to make the CGI Tawny the Tiger a refugee from an alternate future Earth-After-Disaster, and give him a Very Big Gun... and it probably wouldn't hurt to have him frequently spout a funny catchphrase like "Grrrrreat!", giving it a different vocal inflection (and sense of irony) for each situation. I'd be happy to preview the film, and if I absolutely hate it, they can feel confident of a sure-fire audience pleaser. In fact, they should probably just send me the script -- if it turns out that I love it, I'm afraid the entire thing will have to be gutted and reworked from scratch.
                                Last edited by pulphero; 09-28-2014, 04:21 AM.

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