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  • #61
    Originally posted by ChastMastr View Post
    I really hope that's not true.
    It will be an inverse relationship with the cheaper printed formats (with the most readers) disappearing first, and the most expensive formats (with the least readers) holding out the longest. IDW's Artist Editions are probably the best example of something for which there will be never really be something like a digital "reasonable facsimile", so they're a great investment. Absolutes and oversize Omnibus editions, too.
    Last edited by pulphero; 06-18-2014, 07:01 AM.

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    • #62
      G'day,

      Look, anyone who's taking a head in the sand approach to ebooks is frankly being foolish and gravely disadvantaging themselves. That especially applies to people 40 plus. Part of my job is trying to help people with various financial matters and I have great difficulties with over 70's who have no idea of internet services and now find they need it for internet banking and the like. These were the same cohort who back in the 1990's I was trying to train on internet usage and resisted it back then because they believed they knew it all and didn't need it. If you think you can ignore social media, digital books etc you are setting yourself up for major fail.

      The other big advantage for authors is the far higher profit potential for them. A $35 book on Amazon return about $2 to the author while an authors keeps 75% of and ebook price. Big difference and thats why publishers really hate ebooks. They are not really needed, at least in the current form. Books become much more a direct deal between the writer and the reader. Now, comics are a bit different in that its usually more of a team effort, so I expect publishers to survive longer because they can bring artists, writers, inkers etc together but it does allow small publishers to survive. If they are not swallowed up by the big boys I expect an increasing number of comic book publishers becoming virtually exclusively digital although they might still get tpbs out of there better works for collectors.

      ta

      Ralph

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      • #63
        Originally posted by ralphuniverse View Post
        Look, anyone who's taking a head in the sand approach to ebooks is frankly being foolish and gravely disadvantaging themselves.
        By definition, really, anyone taking a "head in the sand" approach is doing so; fortunately, I'm not. (Technically, my concern could be negatively characterized more as "chicken little/sky is falling" than "head in the sand," regardless.)

        I honestly believe that requiring more than eyes and a light source to be able to read something is a shift downward, not upward, and requiring an array of technology--and the continued good will of the people running the system behind that technology--to actually continue to own one's purchased books is also a shift downward.

        We'll just have to disagree here, I'm afraid.

        Let's go back to bashing the New 52!

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        • #64
          (Don't get me wrong--I think the ready availability of most of the classics from most of human history is a FANTASTIC thing. That more people don't take more advantage of it, including me, is pretty troubling, though I'm trying to get back into that (though currently I also have quite a few things in physical book form to read and reread). If I can afford a Kindle someday (sigh), the first things I want to go on it are everything from Project Gutenberg...)

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          • #65
            Ooo! Used Kindle on Craigslist near me might be affordable when more money comes in...

            But back to my loathing of the New 52...

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            • #66
              Originally posted by ralphuniverse View Post
              If you think you can ignore social media
              Well, it's worked out fine for me so far. But then, I have nothing to promote or sell.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by ralphuniverse View Post
                A $35 book on Amazon return about $2 to the author while an authors keeps 75% of an ebook price. Big difference and thats why publishers really hate ebooks.
                Who says they hate them? 25% of the cover price goes to the publisher. That's great, probably more than they make on regular books after paying editorial, advertising & promotion costs and the printers, and after the distributors and retailers get their cut. Even if you aren't buying the ebook directly from the publisher, but instead from Amazon, B&N, Borders, Apple or whoever, let's say the publishers split that 25% with them 50/50 -- that's 12.5% of the cover price for an investment on the publishers' part of $0.00 per copy -- pure profit. In fact, reducing initial overhead costs to just editorial and advertising & promotion (which is pretty much overhead from the regular printed book), and sharing the profit with online retailers is a much better deal all around for the publishers.

                It should be the printers, distributors and brick & mortar retailers who hate ebooks; they get 0%. It's just pure competition for their services. The profit that would normally go to printers, distributors, and brick & mortar retailers is now going to the author instead. Of course if the online retailer is the same company as the brick & mortar retailer (like B&N or Borders) then it's profit either way, so they don't care.

                Now the only scary scenario here for the publishers is if printed books go away and digital books become the standard. What's to stop Stephen King or any other big name author with an established audience from just becoming a self-publisher? Mr. King can afford to write a check for an advertising agency to handle advertising and promotion for his newest book, or just hire some designers and tech-savvy types to sell ad banners all over the web. Then Mr. King calls up Amazon, B&N, Borders, and Apple and makes a deal with them to keep, say 10% of the price of each copy of his new book that they sell to a customer. That would effectively cut book publishers out of the picture. Note, this will not be so easy to do for new authors trying to establish themselves. This might actually go a long way to explaining why ebooks are such a good deal for authors. If the publishers got the majority of the profit from each copy sold, it's pretty tempting for any author with a little clout to become an independent business.
                Last edited by pulphero; 06-19-2014, 04:10 AM.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by ChastMastr View Post
                  I honestly believe that requiring more than eyes and a light source to be able to read something is a shift downward, not upward, and requiring an array of technology--and the continued good will of the people running the system behind that technology--to actually continue to own one's purchased books is also a shift downward.

                  We'll just have to disagree here, I'm afraid.
                  Nope, those are all valid points on which we don't disagree. Maybe the only disagreement here is whether or not those points will ALWAYS hold true for digital books. Regarding DRM issues, in the real world "possession is 9/10ths of the law", but that's not what Apple believes, which is why I avoid anything to do with them like a plague; they're control freaks. YOU might have possession of something you "purchased" from Apple, but as far as Apple is concerned, THEY are the true owners. Obviously there are still issues regarding copy-protection and what rights the buyer has to protect his investment in his purchase price by being able to back up copies, and not have access to what he paid for blocked by the seller. And the file formats need to be translatable into newer formats, as old techology becomes outdated, or be backwardly compatible with newer reader devices. But there are a surprising number of things available already that don't have a lot of these issues. For example, one way of reading a digital comic is by scanning each page into an individual .JPEG file, then naming each individual image in such a way that the images will be ordered in the same sequence as the original pages. Clicking on the first image would automatically open the application associated with viewing that type of file (in this case, Windows Photo Viewer), and you can progress through the pages of your comic by using the forward and back arrows in the slideshow viewer. If you wanted to share this comic with someone, you could pack it into a .ZIP file, and send it to someone or keep a bunch of them stored on a large backup drive.

                  Originally posted by ChastMastr View Post
                  Let's go back to bashing the New 52!
                  Something we can all agree on!
                  Last edited by pulphero; 06-19-2014, 05:01 AM.

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                  • #69
                    G'day,

                    Those numbers were for a self published book. The Author received the 75% Amazon the 25%. There was no publishing house in between. What I expect to see over the next decade or two is companies like Amazon taking over the promotional aspect of book marketing. Which they are already starting to do and is what their Kindles are about.

                    ta

                    Ralph


                    Originally posted by pulphero View Post
                    Who says they hate them? 25% of the cover price goes to the publisher. That's great, probably more than they make on regular books after paying editorial, advertising & promotion costs and the printers, and after the distributors and retailers get their cut. Even if you aren't buying the ebook directly from the publisher, but instead from Amazon, B&N, Borders, Apple or whoever, let's say the publishers split that 25% with them 50/50 -- that's 12.5% of the cover price for an investment on the publishers' part of $0.00 per copy -- pure profit. In fact, reducing initial overhead costs to just editorial and advertising & promotion (which is pretty much overhead from the regular printed book), and sharing the profit with online retailers is a much better deal all around for the publishers.

                    It should be the printers, distributors and brick & mortar retailers who hate ebooks; they get 0%. It's just pure competition for their services. The profit that would normally go to printers, distributors, and brick & mortar retailers is now going to the author instead. Of course if the online retailer is the same company as the brick & mortar retailer (like B&N or Borders) then it's profit either way, so they don't care.

                    Now the only scary scenario here for the publishers is if printed books go away and digital books become the standard. What's to stop Stephen King or any other big name author with an established audience from just becoming a self-publisher? Mr. King can afford to write a check for an advertising agency to handle advertising and promotion for his newest book, or just hire some designers and tech-savvy types to sell ad banners all over the web. Then Mr. King calls up Amazon, B&N, Borders, and Apple and makes a deal with them to keep, say 10% of the price of each copy of his new book that they sell to a customer. That would effectively cut book publishers out of the picture. Note, this will not be so easy to do for new authors trying to establish themselves. This might actually go a long way to explaining why ebooks are such a good deal for authors. If the publishers got the majority of the profit from each copy sold, it's pretty tempting for any author with a little clout to become an independent business.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by ralphuniverse View Post
                      Those numbers were for a self published book. The Author received the 75% Amazon the 25%. There was no publishing house in between. What I expect to see over the next decade or two is companies like Amazon taking over the promotional aspect of book marketing. Which they are already starting to do and is what their Kindles are about.
                      I would be interested in knowing what the profit split is on a digital copy of a regular title, i.e. one which I would recognize the author and publisher's name, and had a choice of buying either as a print book or a digital book, and was widely available from several retail sellers both b&m and online. (If I'm not mistaken, the term "ebook" actually refers to a specific format, of which there are several for digital books, collectively.)

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by pulphero View Post
                        . . . If I'm not mistaken, the term "ebook" actually refers to a specific format, of which there are several for digital books, collectively.
                        Or has it started as a brand-specific term that has become generically used now, like say a xerox or a kleenex?

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by MajorHoy View Post
                          Or has it started as a brand-specific term that has become generically used now, like say a xerox or a kleenex?
                          I'm still a little confused about this, but I'm going to say it looks like I was wrong about that. Several proprietary formats have used the word "ebook" (alternatively "E-book", "e-book", or "eBook") as part of their descriptive title (and even more have not), although these don't appear to have the same or compatible formats. More information is available at Wikipedia's entry for E-book, along with a truly bewildering list of ebook formats. It seems that in practice, "digital book" and "ebook" are used generically and interchangeably. There is some indication that "ebook" is indicative of one of several XML-based formats, as opposed to Adobe's .PDF ("portable document format", used by Adobe Reader).

                          For comic books, .CBR and .CBZ (zipped) seem to be the most common open (as opposed to proprietary) format. Undoubtably many of the formats listed in the wikipedia entry are defunct (along with the specific devices they ran on, like Apple's Newton), or just never gained enough popularity to worry about too much; but that still seems to leave a pretty big list of existing, competing, and incompatible different formats of ebooks that make me more reticent than ever to take the plunge into digital books. This despite a house full of books that is still growing and taking up an uncomfortable percentage of living space. What can I say -- I have a paper book monkey (more like a 500-pound gorilla) on my back.
                          Last edited by pulphero; 06-20-2014, 12:30 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by pulphero View Post
                            What can I say -- I have a paper book monkey (more like a 500-pound gorilla) on my back.
                            Likewise. My Uncle swore he was never going to move another person who read because when he helped me move it weemed like half the boxes were marked 'books'.

                            While i understand that digital is the wave of the future (if not now) there are a couple of drawbacks similar to the beta/vhs arguments including not being able to get something because you can't find it in your format. What happens if 20 years from now a book is in a long defunct format? What if the computer with several dozen (if not hundreds) of important works crashes and they are lost? And before you go there I'm not talking an apocalyptic event just a hacker or power spike type thing.
                            People who are rasied with newtech always seem to reguard those who are uncomfortable with it as old fashion, stubborn or stupid. Sometimes we're just more comfortable with what we know. I'm comfortable with new tech, heck the machine I'm writing this on would have taken up an entire building when I was born. Some of us are sinply more comfortable with what we know.
                            Always remember, Murphy was an optimist
                            Munchkin 1, 2, 4, 7 Super Munchkin 1&2, Munchkin Bites 1&2, Munchkin Fu, Star Munchkin Deluxe and Star 2
                            http://ghornet.deviantart.com/

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                            • #74
                              G'day,

                              I got a Kindle. That gives me access to Amazon's huge library and other people use it such as Baen. Comixology comics are readable on a Kindle through an app. Even Project Gutenberg uses it. Considering the kindle dominates the market I doubt the format will disappear any improvement will likely be back compatible and theres software to convert one format to another anyway. As to catastrophes , well thats what backups are for.

                              I just have an inexpensive paperwhite Kindle, which is great for books but not so great for comics, they really need a bigger screen and color. I expect I'll be getting a Kindle fire tablet eventually.

                              Ralph

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                              • #75
                                Exactly. Early adopters on the cutting edge are also on the bleeding edge.

                                I have the same concerns you do about multiple competing formats. It's worse here because it's not just 2 or 3 major players trying to promote their own tech, it's more. What I want to see is a standardized file format that will be compatible with multiple popular devices. Yes, we've all been burned before by the Beta vs. VHS war, the DivX vs. DVD war, and the HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray war. Pity the poor saps who invested hundreds of dollars in laserdiscs, but they really should have known better. No one can blame anyone for hanging back and waiting for the pieces to shake out before committing to an investment in a new technology that ties up a lot of their money in something that could quickly become obsoleted. You can't invest your money with confidence until it's proven that a technology has gained wide acceptance in the marketplace, and even then, there's no guarantee it will be around for decades to come.

                                Regarding hard drive crashes, there's just no easy way to put it. If you've got time and money tied up in that data (like any media library of ebooks, image files, music and video) on your drive, you need to be stupid not to back it up to another drive. The odds of 2 drives failing at the same time (before you can make another backup) is so slim as to be negligible. If the drive crashes and you have no backup, it's not on the people that invented the file formats, it's on the operator.

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