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  • #46
    Originally posted by tony ingram View Post
    But the whole young Vision thing did not "reorigin" the Vision, because they were two separate characters. It didn't add anything at all to Vizh's origin story, or impact him in any way.
    I know The Vision has returned, but don't know what his current status is or how (or even if) it was explained. You maintain that the YA Vision was a completely seperate character, while Wikipedia seems split on whether he was or not -- and my reading of it was that he was hybridized with Iron Lad from the remains of the previous Vision deconstructed in Avengers Disassembled. That may have been explained away in some fashion in subsequent stories, I have no idea.
    Last edited by pulphero; 11-21-2014, 03:08 AM.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by tony ingram View Post
      And who are the most successful heroes these days, the unrealistic paragons of virtue or the more realistic and identifiable characters?
      Whether it's popular or not makes no difference to me. You identify with what you want to identify with, and I'll identify with what I want to identify with.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by tony ingram View Post
        That sounds vaguely insulting, to me. I understand what Captain America "means to some Americans", I just think it's a rather naive and childish view of the world.
        Well, when you want to be insulting, you're certainly not vague about it.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by pulphero View Post
          I know The Vision has returned, but don't know what his current status is or how (or even if) it was explained. You maintain that the YA Vision was a completely seperate character, while Wikipedia seems split on whether he was or not -- and my reading of it was that he was hybridized with Iron Lad from the remains of the previous Vision deconstructed in Avengers Disassembled. That may have been explained away in some fashion in subsequent stories, I have no idea.
          Wikipedia seems to have it wrong, and yes, it was all explained (why would you assume it hadn't been?). As I said earlier, it's a mistake to make assumptions about stories you haven't read. The younger Vision was created from Iron Lad's armour and a back-up copy of the original Vision's operating system: his software, not his hardware. He died during Young Avengers: the Children's Crusade. The original Vision's remains stayed in the custody of Tony Stark, who apparently spent some time trying unsuccessfully to repair him (though hampered in doing so by fears of accidentally erasing his consciousness) until eventually, the Vision's self repair systems kicked in, sometime after his temporary resurrection in Dead Avengers. The Vision now is the same character he was before Avengers Disassembled, though he is understandably annoyed with his ex-wife. He is aware that a younger Vision lived and died in his absence, but that younger Vision was not him.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by pulphero View Post
            Well, when you want to be insulting, you're certainly not vague about it.
            Well, you started it with the patronising "you're English, so you wouldn't understand" comment. We understand perfectly well. We've just, as a culture, largely outgrown the romanticized notion of impossible idealism. Yours is not the perfect society, not because you just haven't got there yet but because no society will ever be perfect.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by tony ingram View Post
              Well, you started it with the patronising "you're English, so you wouldn't understand" comment. We understand perfectly well. We've just, as a culture, largely outgrown the romanticized notion of impossible idealism. Yours is not the perfect society, not because you just haven't got there yet but because no society will ever be perfect.
              If you can't empathize with it, then you don't really understand it. Ralph is Australian, but I think he gets it (thanks for the support, Ralph). We can never be perfect, but that doesn't mean we should stop aspiring to our better natures. Perfection isn't achievable, but we can always get closer.

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              • #52
                G'day,

                Pulphero, don't waste your time. Remember our ancestors left Europe for a reason.

                ta

                Ralph

                Originally posted by pulphero View Post
                If you can't empathize with it, then you don't really understand it. Ralph is Australian, but I think he gets it (thanks for the support, Ralph). We can never be perfect, but that doesn't mean we should stop aspiring to our better natures. Perfection isn't achievable, but we can always get closer.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by ralphuniverse View Post
                  G'day,

                  Pulphero, don't waste your time. Remember our ancestors left Europe for a reason.

                  ta

                  Ralph
                  I guess that's what it boils down to, in essence. You either accept the world around you as the way things are, or dream of something better than the reality you see, and try to change it. Sometimes to do that you need to ignore the naysayers or just get away from them and go your own way. It helps to have an example of that to look to, even a fictional one.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by ralphuniverse View Post
                    G'day,

                    Pulphero, don't waste your time. Remember our ancestors left Europe for a reason.

                    ta

                    Ralph
                    Yes. Yours, as I recall, were mostly transported for minor offences.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by pulphero View Post
                      I guess that's what it boils down to, in essence. You either accept the world around you as the way things are, or dream of something better than the reality you see, and try to change it.
                      Might I suggest that proper gun control laws and a universal healthcare system would be a good starting point? Two things which I don't think Captain America has ever been known to give an opinion on, oddly enough.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by tony ingram View Post
                        Might I suggest that proper gun control laws and a universal healthcare system would be a good starting point? Two things which I don't think Captain America has ever been known to give an opinion on, oddly enough.
                        Actually, I don't know if Captain America would be pro-gun control, though he would definitely be an advocate for more responsible gun practices. Sort of more in the middle of the two extremes.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by tony ingram View Post
                          Might I suggest that proper gun control laws and a universal healthcare system would be a good starting point? Two things which I don't think Captain America has ever been known to give an opinion on, oddly enough.
                          You're behind the times, Tony. The Affordable Health Care Act was signed into law in 2010. Marvel generally tends to avoid having Captain America associate himself with any political issues which might be divisive and stick to the basic principles espoused by the founding fathers of the US Constitution, but it might be interesting to see Steve debate the topic with Bucky and Nick Fury... or would it even be a debate? You could read CIVIL WAR as a metaphor for gun control laws, since metahumans are potentially (if not more so) as dangerous as guns, so maybe there's a hint there of how he'd weigh in on the topic... regardless, those laws would probably not have helped prevent Cap's assassination by Crossbones.

                          Surely those gun control laws must exist in Megacity One. They seem to have a law for everything else.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by pulphero View Post
                            You're behind the times, Tony. The Affordable Health Care Act was signed into law in 2010. Marvel generally tends to avoid having Captain America associate himself with any political issues which might be divisive and stick to the basic principles espoused by the founding fathers of the US Constitution, but it might be interesting to see Steve debate the topic with Bucky and Nick Fury... or would it even be a debate? You could read CIVIL WAR as a metaphor for gun control laws, since metahumans are potentially (if not more so) as dangerous as guns, so maybe there's a hint there of how he'd weigh in on the topic... regardless, those laws would probably not have helped prevent Cap's assassination by Crossbones.

                            Surely those gun control laws must exist in Megacity One. They seem to have a law for everything else.
                            Gun control laws certainly exist in Mega City One, though Mega City One-despite being supposedly in what was once the USA-is essentially a warped version of contemporary Britain much of the time once you scratch the surface.

                            As far as the Affordable Health Care Act goes, surely the term "affordable" still indicates that it's not actually free at the point of delivery?

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by MajorHoy View Post
                              Actually, I don't know if Captain America would be pro-gun control, though he would definitely be an advocate for more responsible gun practices. Sort of more in the middle of the two extremes.
                              The only responsible practice, as far as I can see, is not to keep a gun unless you have a legitimate reason for doing so, and then under very strict controls. The only people I personally know who own guns are a couple of farmers with shotguns and a guy who is licensed to shoot pests.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by tony ingram View Post
                                As far as the Affordable Health Care Act goes, surely the term "affordable" still indicates that it's not actually free at the point of delivery?
                                No matter how you slice it, ultimately someone has to pay for that medical care. Insurance pays for the bulk of it, but of course insurance costs money, one way or the other. "Free at the point of delivery" simply means it's coming out of someone's paycheck before they cash it. Now no one's allowed to opt out of the system by not having any insurance. Depending on your level of income, you either share that cost with your employer or with the government, except if you're among the poorest. Then it's essentially free to you.

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