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  • Originally posted by positronic View Post
    Well, I've read the issue. Curiously enough, this issue uses yet a different type of alien language font (not Comicraft's Gobbledygook) that I can't identify. Then there is the incongruity of one of the blood-red colored Thither people referring to the Hithers as "the Red Men" (who are only about as red as your average Native American, or at most a good sunburn). That sort of struck me as funny.

    Other than that, there is the framing sequence (which I won't spoil for you), then it's straight into a pretty straightforward (if necessarily condensed) adaptation of the beginning of Gullivar's story, which takes a bit of a turn once he arrives on Barsoom (which I again won't spoil). Not a bad start, but John Carter only appears in the framing sequence so far.

    Marvel's "Gullivar Jones, Warrior of Mars" (in CREATURES ON THE LOOSE in the 1970s) had the Hither people as lemon-yellow skinned, the Thithers as blood-red skinned, but of a monstrous sub-humanoid type. It's been decades since I read the novel, so I can't recall how Edwin Arnold described them.
    I am reading it RIGHT NOW, and you say there is a new font? OH YEAH THIS WILL BE FUN

    red men, calling red men, red men? sounds like the kind of dialogue quirk that would be worked out in the tradepaperback if at all, or maybe red has a different emotional significance on mars (thithers in the book are red, but are once called yellow referring to cowardice)

    if the hither are less red than the thithers perhaps it can be changed to "the pale men"

    if the thithers are red martians like described in the book then it would seem they are reds with a high level of yellow martian and black martian heritage, with the hither having a high level of white martian heritage

    remember diversity is to be expected regionally when your race is the result of hybridization over eons! Demonstrated by burroughs with the city of ghasta, and the hybrids of the thern labyrinths!

    Comment


    • So does it say when Gullivar's first visit to Mars is actually set? I know he travels through space and time, but if this predates Dejah Thoris' birth then it would be before, say, the 1400s, but I don't know when.

      Yes. Yes, I am that much of a chronology weenie.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by ChastMastr View Post
        So does it say when Gullivar's first visit to Mars is actually set? I know he travels through space and time, but if this predates Dejah Thoris' birth then it would be before, say, the 1400s, but I don't know when.

        Yes. Yes, I am that much of a chronology weenie.
        according to the first preview gullivar arrives 1400 years before john carters arrival, I cant find any reason for him travelling through time . . . . just because.

        so some time during the 400s?

        Comment


        • John Carter of Mars movie

          KAOR!

          The new John Carter of Mars movie premiers March 9th. Disney is sharing a spot with the Superbowl on a building in downtown Indianapolis.

          Click image for larger version

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          I hope it does justice to ERB. Did anyone else see POM by The Asylum studios. What a dog of a movie. I did think Antonio Sabato jr. looked the part of John Carter, although is acting wasn't up to the task.

          I was also very excited when they did "Starship Troopers"....and look how that turned out.

          Comment


          • The dialogue actually alludes to the fact that Gullivar travels in time as well as space. As far as when it's taking place on Earth before Gullivar journeys to Mars, the dialogue again makes reference to the fact that Gullivar had served with distinction during the Civil War. Hope that places it close enough for you.

            Gullivar's Princess Heru is apparently Dejah Thoris' mother (which makes her, and the Hither race, ERB's "Red Men"). And no, the Thithers definitely aren't related to ERB's Red, Yellow, or Black Barsoomian races. They look like some sort of weird mutation of the Tharks or Warhoons, but with blood-red skin rather than green. The Hither people, from whose point of view (and Gullivar's) the story takes place, are the "here" people, and the Thithers are the "there" or "yonder" people, the invaders from afar who are enemies of the Hithers or Red Men.
            Last edited by positronic; 02-02-2012, 05:14 AM.
            DE pull list: Will Eisner's The Spirit: The Corpse Makers, ERB's The Greatest Adventure, Green Hornet '66 Meets The Spirit, PSP: Herokillers, KISS/Vampirella, Mighty Mouse

            Comment


            • Starship troopers is one of my all time favorite movies . . . . I am not saying it was a good movie, but it introduced me to science fiction and drama in general

              and for the record, I despise the book

              I run the John Carter of mars wiki, and I have researched the film in to an insane depth . . . and from what I can tell, the movie is pretty close to the books . . . but it seems like they are avoiding the accuracy in the advertisements and promotional materials like the plague . .. which I dont understand

              I also understadn that Andrew Stanton kind fought with disney on alot of points, which is always a good sign!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by positronic View Post
                The dialogue actually alludes to the fact that Gullivar travels in time as well as space. As far as when it's taking place on Earth before Gullivar journeys to Mars, the dialogue again makes reference to the fact that Gullivar had served with distinction during the Civil War. Hope that places it close enough for you.

                Gullivar's Princess Heru is apparently Dejah Thoris' mother (which makes her, and the Hither race, ERB's "Red Men"). And no, the Thithers definitely aren't related to ERB's Red, Yellow, or Black Barsoomian races. They look like some sort of weird mutation of the Tharks or Warhoons, but with blood-red skin rather than green. The Hither people, from whose point of view (and Gullivar's) the story takes place, are the "here" people, and the Thithers are the "there" or "yonder" people, the invaders from afar who are enemies of the Hithers or Red Men.
                That is an excessively unusual interpretation of the thithers and hithers, I think in this case it would be best if the thithers calling of the red men red was changed to "pale"

                this is actually inline with a few comments on the thithers in gullivar of mars, which repeatedly called them "ape men" a but this is because of their skull shape and the fact that they were hairy . . .

                but what is an ape on mars? essentially the same species as teh green martian removed a few steps from evolution! what is a man on mars, typically the red martian is the ideal of the man on mars

                so what is an ape-man on mars, a crude combination of the red men and the great white apes of mars AND FROM WHAT I CAN TELL THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THESE THITHERS ARE

                BRAVO!!!! its a brilliant interpretation of the text of gullivar applied to barsoomian standards to create a unique idea!

                still, any reference of the thithers calling the hithers "red" should be changed to pale, since they themselves are red

                Comment


                • Warlord of Earth (a proposal)

                  A simple proposal, a four/five issue miniseries (like warriors of mars, white apes of mars, or fall of barsoom) that explores john carters immortality

                  it would be a period piece, probably taking place sometime during the roman empire, or perhaps sometime earlier or later. It would show John Carter as the man we know in a time of ancient earth, doing what he does best!

                  it would also be an excellent comic for exploring the connectivity of burroughs worlds. Perhaps showing the effects of barsoomian technology somehow making its way to earth, or showing some of the more fantastic creatures of earth created by burroughs!

                  Personally, I would have John Carter as a warlord of a small group trying to leave the roman empire, a man fighting for the freedom of these people .. . . it would be early in john carters life, and he wouldnt exactly be the same man . . . once or twice I would show him changing a prayer to mars the god of war, or perhaps those he fights for thinking he is mars . . . yeah I would go overboard with the mars stuff

                  there would be some fantastic beasts of course controlled by a "sorceror" these beasts would be dinosaurs and other creatures ripped from tarturus . . . or did romans use the term hades? Still, dinosaurs ripped from pellucidar to give John Carter something cool to stab!

                  A quick and violent look at john carters past, fun fast action!

                  Comment


                  • I would be all over a mini series like this one but I still think we need a second Warlord of Mars with original Nelson stories keeping the continuity of the novels on the first book.

                    Comment


                    • "excessively unusual interpretation of the thithers and hithers"? Well, only if you consider the dictionary definition of "hither" and "thither" excessively unusual. Frankly, I thought Marvel's Gullivar Jones strip got the visual interpretation of the Thithers right, but I must admit I read it before the actual novel, so I may be biased.

                      If Gullivar Jones influenced ERB (and there's no proof, although it's certainly possible), it's been pointed out by many that H.G. Wells' Eloi and Morlocks from THE TIME MACHINE may have influenced Edwin Arnold, and the similarities are certainly striking, which makes it harder to see the Hither people (Eloi) as ERB's Red Men, although apart from that, the Morlocks, Thither people, and Tharks all share a certain aggressive savagery and physical power. On the other hand, the Hither people are described as thin, gaunt, slender and willowy, dainty and light-- and "ashy grey in colour" (describing Hath's face) or is it white (Gullivar mentions "white foreheads")? So much so that the first person that Gullivar meets is ambiguous as to sexuality -- he at first takes "An" for a young boy, only to find out later she is a girl. Hard to imagine that ever being a problem with ERB's Red Men! But he has no such problem recognizing the Princess Heru's sex.

                      "They were the prettiest, daintiest folk ever eyes looked upon, well-formed and like to us as could be in the main, but slender and willowy, so dainty and light, both the men and the women, so pretty of cheek and hair, so mild of aspect, I felt, as I strode amongst them, I could have plucked them like flowers and bound them up in bunches with my belt. And yet somehow I liked them from the first minute; such a happy, careless, light-hearted race, again I say, never was seen before. There was not a stain of thought or care on a single one of those white foreheads that eddied round me under their peaked, blossom-like caps, the perpetual smile their faces wore never suffered rebuke anywhere; their very movements were graceful and slow, their laughter was low and musical, there was an odour of friendly, slothful happiness about them that made me admire whether I would or no."

                      Now, if that's not Wells' Eloi, I don't know what is. It's certainly not ERB's Red Men, though.

                      As far as Barsoom goes, I don't remember Burroughs ever hinting at interbreeding between the Red Men and the Green Men, so I would assume even less the case of interbreeding between Red Men and White Apes. Maybe one of Ras Thavas' crazy biological experiments in genetic engineering? In fact, maybe both the Hither and Thither folk are genetic engineering experiments, as it doesn't seem likely the Hithers could evolve naturally and survive in such an evolutionarily competitive ecosystem as Barsoom's.

                      It seems to me that if Barsoom can already support four different human races, plus Green Men, White Apes, Plant Men, and Rykors and Kaldanes, there ought to be room for a couple of Hither and Thither races as well without having to make them fit Burroughs' already established races.
                      Last edited by positronic; 02-02-2012, 10:39 AM.
                      DE pull list: Will Eisner's The Spirit: The Corpse Makers, ERB's The Greatest Adventure, Green Hornet '66 Meets The Spirit, PSP: Herokillers, KISS/Vampirella, Mighty Mouse

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by positronic View Post
                        "excessively unusual interpretation of the thithers and hithers"? Well, only if you consider the dictionary definition of "hither" and "thither" excessively unusual. Frankly, I thought Marvel's Gullivar Jones strip got the visual interpretation of the Thithers right, but I must admit I read it before the actual novel, so I may be biased.

                        If Gullivar Jones influenced ERB (and there's no proof, although it's certainly possible), it's been pointed out by many that H.G. Wells' Eloi and Morlocks from THE TIME MACHINE may have influenced Edwin Arnold, and the similarities are certainly striking, which makes it harder to see the Hither people (Eloi) as ERB's Red Men, although apart from that, the Morlocks, Thither people, and Tharks all share a certain aggressive savagery and physical power. On the other hand, the Hither people are described as thin, gaunt, slender and willowy, dainty and light-- and "ashy grey in colour" (describing Hath's face) or is it white (Gullivar mentions "white foreheads")? So much so that the first person that Gullivar meets is ambiguous as to sexuality -- he at first takes "An" for a young boy, only to find out later she is a girl. Hard to imagine that ever being a problem with ERB's Red Men! But he has no such problem recognizing the Princess Heru's sex.

                        "They were the prettiest, daintiest folk ever eyes looked upon, well-formed and like to us as could be in the main, but slender and willowy, so dainty and light, both the men and the women, so pretty of cheek and hair, so mild of aspect, I felt, as I strode amongst them, I could have plucked them like flowers and bound them up in bunches with my belt. And yet somehow I liked them from the first minute; such a happy, careless, light-hearted race, again I say, never was seen before. There was not a stain of thought or care on a single one of those white foreheads that eddied round me under their peaked, blossom-like caps, the perpetual smile their faces wore never suffered rebuke anywhere; their very movements were graceful and slow, their laughter was low and musical, there was an odour of friendly, slothful happiness about them that made me admire whether I would or no."

                        Now, if that's not Wells' Eloi, I don't know what is. It's certainly not ERB's Red Men, though.

                        As far as Barsoom goes, I don't remember Burroughs ever hinting at interbreeding between the Red Men and the Green Men, so I would assume even less the case of interbreeding between Red Men and White Apes. Maybe one of Ras Thavas' crazy biological experiments in genetic engineering? In fact, maybe both the Hither and Thither folk are genetic engineering experiments, as it doesn't seem likely the Hithers could evolve naturally and survive in such an evolutionarily competitive ecosystem as Barsoom's.

                        It seems to me that if Barsoom can already support four different human races, plus Green Men, White Apes, Plant Men, and Rykors and Kaldanes, there ought to be room for a couple of Hither and Thither races as well without having to make them fit Burroughs' already established races.
                        Like I have pointed out before, there is one red martian individual that perfectly fits the description of the thither. The Jed of the city Ghasta

                        as for itnerbreeding with greens and white apes, barsoomian mythology claims that this is how therns and other races came about, but that is myth. But there are hybrids in the labyrinths of the therns! So there we have a possible origin for dynamites thithers!

                        Like I said, in the book the thithers are called "ape-men" in barsoomian context this should mean they are men who resemble barsoomian apes . . .. . . . so dynamite has done an incredibly clever thing here!

                        there are possible origins, excapees of the labyrinth, the valley of the lost souls, a little explored location, a semi fertile tundric valley serrounding the southern pole where people who didnt complete the pilgrimage on the river iss fled

                        this about that one for a second, an entirely unexplored region that is mentioned by name, that could certainly fit the description of the thithers homeland from the book, that is occupied by green and red men at the very least . . . possibly interbreeding . . .


                        So here is my theory on dynamite comics barsoomian thithers

                        they are descendents of green and red martians and they live in the tundric valley of the lost souls. They are uninhibited abominations who breed with whatever is available, both white apes, and red martian women! it has produced a society of hybrid monsters, an unusual race of ape-men!

                        that is my theory anyways, we are going to have to read the entire warriors of mars series to find out!

                        I havent been able to get my hands on the first issue yet even

                        Comment


                        • Warriors of Mars (lets discuss it here)

                          First off, I love this comic, I love the new barsoomian written language (it will take me a while to decode though) I love the interpretation of these things

                          there are a few things I cant get over though, near the beginning one of the red martians doesnt understand what a country is . . . there are many nations on barsoom, I dont see why this would confuse him?

                          okay onto the list of differences, here the hithers are a red race, they are normal human sized, and heru is haths daughter, the hithers in gullivar of mars did not have children of their own and heru was some sort of . . . . excort to hath to my knowledge . . . .the caste of slave women is missing . . . the sea has been replaced with a canal . . . overall though I think these work for the hithers if you are going to translate them into a barsoomian context

                          there are a few things not explained, gullivar speaking the language for example! I suppose that could be a part of the carpets mystical influence though!

                          there is alot here that deviates from the original gullivar of mars, and not to any sort of detriment . . . because lets be honest . . . gullivar on mars kinda sucked


                          Now the thither people I think are the real highlight here, they are a blood red four armed people . . . there is a barsoomian feel to them, they are darker than the reddest red man

                          in the original gullivar of mars, they are referred to as ape-men constantly, and as you know apes on barsoom are four armed giants related to the green men. . . so this is a great extrapolation of that idea. Hybrids of this type green/red are only known in the lands of the therns, slaves in the labyrinths . .. and possibly in the valley of lost souls, a tundra region that is fairly fertile outside the valley door but still in the arctic . . . . in the original gullivar of mars, the thithers are from a tundra region that is semi-fertile with many sorts of pine trees and alot of barren land . . . not to disimiliar to what the valley of lost souls should be like

                          and to further cement this idea . . . the thither calls Gullivar a "ghost" now, I cant name many places on barsoom with white martians . . . but the therns who live in mountains high above the valley of the lost souls overlooking these individuals here . . . I might just be inclined to think that the thithers believe therns are ghosts!

                          now here is where it gets better, gullivar in the book traveled the river of death and that is how he reached the thither lands . . . the only path to the valley of lost souls is the river iss or airship above!!!!!!

                          now the only problem with this comic that I find, is that the thither refers to the red men . . . as red men . . . and they themselves are red, I would think they owuld have a pet name for the red men . . . like . . . ummmmm . . . "pale" men since they are so much redder

                          so in short, dynamite has created what the thithers should be in barsoomian context

                          warriors of mars is not gullivar of mars, it is gullivar of barsoom

                          it is the gullivar of edgar rice burroughs universe, traveling to edgar rice burroughs mars, this is a perfect fusion!

                          also, lack of airships with the red men, someone did their homework because this comic takes place 1400 years before John Carters arrival, that is 500 years before the invention of airships by the red martians (rediscovery of airships to be more accurate)


                          this comic is savagely faithful to barsoom, it does sacrifice faithfullness to gullivar of mars . . . but only too its benifit!

                          Comment


                          • and before anyways asks, no I have not added any fanon information I have simply speculated on how these things fit together using information exclusively from the barsoom series (gods of mars to be exact public domain read it if you have the chance) and the original gullivar of mars!

                            Comment


                            • What a terrible idea.

                              His artwork is terrible.

                              Comment


                              • I will be getting this series.

                                BUT - I ONLY HAVE SO MUCH MONEY FOR THESE BOOKS DYNAMITE!!!!!!

                                So, the regualr DT book will have to go to make room.

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