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Green Hornet/The Shadow: Dark Knights series MEGATHREAD

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  • #31
    Your comments made me take a closer look. I went back and looked at issue #1 page by page, and then went through #2 page by page. I still think the art looks a bit rushed compaired to #1, but I guess its not that bad. The backgrounds and everything look fairly the same, its just some of the composition of the characters faces. Like when Kato is punching the guy in the face in #2, that looks a bit muddy.

    The first few pages of #1 with the Shadow in the White House were gorgeous and the rest of the book stayed around that level of consistency.

    I think the main problem in #2 is the faces. In some panels they look very rough, especially Khan's face. I also think Reid and Cranston's do at times as well.

    So yeah, calling these thumbnail sketches was a bad example, but I still feel that some of the pencil work looks a bit unfinished at times in this issue.

    I actually like this style of artwork. It seems like it could really work if the time is taken to put the proper polish on it like they did with #1.

    I'm glad I'm not alone on my opinion of the writing. I hope Uslan writes more for Dynamite. I picked up his Batman Elseworld's Detective 27, based on the strength of these issues. I hear its more like, What If Bruce Wayne was a pulp hero, ala Operator #5. Should be pretty good.
    Last edited by PulpCrazy; 08-18-2013, 12:06 PM.

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    • #32
      Dark Nights #2 was a very fun book, much improved on the first issue with some nice scenes of the two characters together which came off as important and iconic. Very well done by Dynamite.
      Dynamite Entertainment
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      Check out Dynamite on Twitter here!

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      • #33
        I don't really like the art in this book at all but the story has been pretty solid, just the art is a tough pill to swallow.

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        • #34
          Another disappointment from DE.!!

          Originally posted by Chadster View Post
          I don't really like the art in this book at all but the story has been pretty solid, just the art is a tough pill to swallow.
          Tough to swallow?? It choked me off.
          Again, the Ross covers promise much more than the art on this series delivers.

          I ---again--- think the interior art is terrible. But, to me, this is the DE style.
          I'm very disappointed in a book that could have been a "classic".

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          • #35
            Yeah, this book isn't too high on my priority list within the Dynamite pulp line due to the poor art and mediocre store presented in the first two issues. I'll continue on since it's only a limited series but I sincerely hope it gets better.

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            • #36
              Dark Knights #3

              How many of you noticed the doors in the panel when Cranston & his friend Marsland are walking down the corridor.
              Timely Comics
              Nick Carter
              Justice Inc.
              Benson Industries
              Supersnipe ltd

              and

              HIDALGO TRADING COMPANY
              Last edited by Ghornet2; 09-20-2013, 11:22 PM.
              Always remember, Murphy was an optimist
              Munchkin 1, 2, 4, 7 Super Munchkin 1&2, Munchkin Bites 1&2, Munchkin Fu, Star Munchkin Deluxe and Star 2
              http://ghornet.deviantart.com/

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Ghornet2 View Post
                How many of you noticed the doors in the panel when Cranston & his friend Marsland are walking down the corridor.
                Timely Comics
                Nick Carter
                Justice Inc.
                Benson Industries
                Supersnipe ltd

                and

                HIDALGO TRADING COMPANY
                Yep, reading it now. Highly enjoyable comic. Hope to eventually see Doc Savage, Green Hornet, Shadow etc eventually team up for a super duper story!

                Ralph

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                • #38
                  Richard Benson/The Avenger & Justice Inc. is obviously the next pulp hero DE needs to get. Supersnipe... eh, not so much.

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                  • #39
                    Dark Nights #4

                    As with the rest of the issues, a great story with sub par artwork. Hell, they drew / colored Khan with hair on page 15 when he's kicking the Green Hornet. It didn't even look like him, I was wondering who the that guy was and how Khan got away. Maybe its supposed to be some type of shadow, but I don't buy it as no others are present in that panel. Just sloppy and subpar.

                    This series could have been on par with Uslan's Detective #27. He did his job and wrote a great tale full of fictional and historical references, not to mention a pretty interesting crossover story. It is too bad the art was not there to match.

                    I can tell Keith Burns has better art in him than this from his blog: http://keith-burns.blogspot.com/

                    The coloring doesn't seem to help either from Avina.
                    Last edited by PulpCrazy; 10-17-2013, 05:06 PM.

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                    • #40
                      Really, really got a kick out of this series. Michael Uslan, of all the writers who have worked on The Shadow for Dynamite, has, I think, best captured the characterization and dialogue of both The Shadow and his agents (nice to see several of them here, instead of just one or two), and he did a decent job handling the Hornet and Kato, too. There was a moment there in this issue, where the Hornet challenges The Shadow's plan, where I was wondering if there would be a conflict between the two of them (The Shadow's not used to his orders being questioned), but The Shadow wisely relents and accepts that in this instance the Hornet is correct and his plan is better.

                      The only part of the series that I found a little weak was the past history revealed between Margo Lane and Lenore Case (or as Margo calls her, 'Nori'). I thought it was stretching credulity just a teensy bit, and didn't really add anything to the overall story. I really appreciated all the little historical details that Uslan worked into the background of this tale, along with the appearances of Nikola Tesla, Howard Hughes, and FDR in the story itself. And it was nice to see Shiwan Khan rear his ugly head again (along with a much-different Khan making an appearance in the first issue of The Shadow NOW).

                      I liked the way Uslan wove all the established bits of the (sometimes conflicting) background story of The Shadow's girasol into a consistent history. The girasol being a remnant of a dead star was a little out there -- Um, wouldn't it weigh like, tons? And how was it polished into a smooth little symmetrical ovoid, or should I say, two? At least he explained why the girasol was said to have been stolen from the “eye” of a Xinca idol. The plot device is far more science-fictional than you'd have found in any of the original pulp stories, but I let it pass, since the story was so good otherwise. I used to wonder the same things about Ray (The Atom) Palmer's "white dwarf star"-powered costume. Oddly enough, this week’s issue of Dynamite’s ongoing Shadow series by Chris Roberson has a teaser for the next issue (#19) asking “What is the secret of the girasol?”. Perhaps Dynamite isn’t editorially coordinating with its writers, since Uslan seems to have already answered that very question in this series. Strangest of all, it’s a question I’d really have expected to be addressed in Matt Wagner’s The Shadow Year One.

                      In the end notes for this issue, Uslan asks if anyone can identify who the Nazi spy “Kruger” is and how he will die in March 1941. The answer, of course, is that Heinz Kruger was the spy who infiltrated the U.S. Army secret project code-named “Project: Rebirth” (aka The Super-Soldier Project). After killing the project’s head scientist, “Dr. Reinstein” (real name Abraham Erskine), he himself is electrocuted when a terrific punch from the newly-transformed Steve Rogers causes Kruger to stagger into an “electrical omniverter” while trying to escape. FDR appears in the same story, with a disparaging remark referring to Shrevvy’s favorite reading material, Marvel Mystery Comics. FDR learned only later that the Human Torch wasn’t merely a fictional character.

                      Little nuggets like that last one made me think about Ron Fortier and Jeff Butler’s homage-laden The Sting of the Green Hornet minseries, done for NOW Comics back in 1992. Dynamite should definitely reprint that (hopefully with new coloring), especially since (unlike NOW’s main GH series) it doesn’t conflict with anything Dynamite has established in its Green Hornet Year One and Mark Waid’s Green Hornet series. Fortier was probably inspired in turn by all the homages littered throughout Dave Stevens’ original Rocketeer series.

                      Uslan also asks what other aliases of The Shadow we can name that Khan failed to mention. My memory’s not good enough to recall every single one, but he left out at least two. “B. Jonas” is the name used by the Shadow (never actually seen in character) to rent a small office that he uses as a mail drop for communiqués from his agents. He’s also used the alias of Fritz, the janitor, to eavesdrop on information from conversations taking place in police headquarters.
                      Last edited by pulphero; 10-17-2013, 09:44 PM.

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                      • #41
                        Great series. The historical touches are wonderful.

                        I agree that, on the art front, it was lacking. I'm wondering if it was the inks more than anything else. Not sure. Still and all, a great story.

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                        • #42
                          After seeing some black and white pages for this, I have to apologize to Keith Burns. They look amazing. Whatever went wrong art wise happened after he was done with it.

                          Examples:

                          http://cdn1-www.craveonline.com/asse...ornet19628.jpg

                          http://cdn2-www.craveonline.com/asse...Hornet6628.jpg

                          No complaints there, those look great. I think the coloring was just sloppy on this. The art work have been better if it just stayed black and white. The coloring makes the art look muddy and loose when it is anything but.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by PulpCrazy View Post
                            This series could have been on par with Uslan's Detective #27. He did his job and wrote a great tale full of fictional and historical references, not to mention a pretty interesting crossover story. It is too bad the art was not there to match.
                            Wow. Total disagreement here. I think Peter Snejberg is a superb artist. I found this about a month ago and re-read it. Now I know why I didn't remember it. On analysis, Uslan's story is just distasteful to me. I know it's an Elseworlds, but it just feels like such a violation of the basic mythos of Batman, in making Thomas Wayne into a completely different character. I just can no longer buy into Bruce Wayne's origin story (regardless of whether or not he wears a bat-inspired costume) if Thomas Wayne turns out to be a psychopathic anarchist who coldly calculates the murder of his own wife, any more than I can believe that Clark Kent can become Superman (regardless of his Kryptonian superpowers) if Jonathan Kent secretly turned out to be a cold-blooded killer. Whether they aware of the fact or not is irrelevant. It boggles my mind that Uslan wouldn't recognize that, especially since I read his autobiography ("The Boy Who Loved Batman"), in which he gives ample credit to his own parents for his success in life. Then there is Uslan's obsession with that circular origin element of the 1989 Batman film, the idea of Batman and the Joker creating each other - I always hated that aspect of the movie. It's just too neat and tidy to be believable. And "Did you ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight?" is just so ridiculous and nonsensical of a mantra on the face of it, that I can't see why he was so fixated on that. While there's a lot to like about the story in terms of historical touchstones and a guest appearance by the Crimson Avenger, unfortunately there's even more to dislike.

                            When it comes to Batman Elseworlds stories in the pulp mode, I vastly prefer such things as Matt Wagner's BATMAN AND THE MONSTER MEN and its sequel, BATMAN AND THE MAD MONK (not labeled as Elseworlds, since by the time these appeared, the imprint had been discontinued) which retell the early pre-Robin stories from 1939 Detective Comics in a more modern style with more detail; Howard Chaykin's DARK ALLEGIANCES, with Batman fighting Fascism in 1936; Ed Brubaker and Sean Phillips' GOTHAM NOIR, which is actually more of a Jim Gordon hard-boiled detective/disgraced ex-cop story set in the late 1940s; Bob Layton and Dick Giordano's early 1940s-set HOLLYWOOD KNIGHT, in which a movie serial actor with a head injury is convinced he really is Batman; Mike Mignola and Troy Nixey's THE DOOM THAT CAME TO GOTHAM, which casts Batman into a 1920s Lovecraftian horror mystery; and John Byrne's classic Golden Age/WWII-set BATMAN & CAPTAIN AMERICA, with Robin, Bucky, the Joker, and the Red Skull.
                            Last edited by pulphero; 12-01-2013, 06:48 AM.

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                            • #44
                              The Shadow / Green Hornet: Dark Nights

                              When checking out amazon after reviewing the mini series on my videoblog:

                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxP_T61MSm4

                              I noticed the collection is listed as Volume 1. When you label something as Volume 1... doesn't that kind of mean there is a Volume 2?

                              This was an amazing series, while the coloring wasn't great, the rest of the book was.

                              Maybe bring in Doc Savage for Volume 2 now that Dynamite has the license?

                              Don't get too out of control though, or you could end up with another Masks (which was over inflated with characters IMO).

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by PulpCrazy View Post
                                I noticed the collection is listed as Volume 1. When you label something as Volume 1... doesn't that kind of mean there is a Volume 2?
                                I think that's just what they call cockeyed optimism. The Lords of Mars TPB is also listed as "Volume 1". What would be in a Volume 2, Carthoris and Korak?
                                Last edited by pulphero; 01-04-2014, 01:34 AM.

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