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The King Watch/Flash Gordon/Phantom/Mandrake MEGATHREAD!

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  • Originally posted by ralphuniverse View Post
    From memory DE's Last Phantom was a Walker. The fellow in Kings Watch was not.
    And where did they say that, exactly? KING: THE PHANTOM #1 gives a clear indication that Lothar is not the 23rd Phantom, so if the fellow in KINGS WATCH was not a Walker, then he would not be the 22nd Phantom. So unless the Phantom before him was actually the 22nd Phantom, it seems to me that he was a Walker.

    Originally posted by ralphuniverse View Post
    The cover shot clearly shows a black man as the Phantom but we don't know if thats the new Phantom or Lothar leading the way.
    Why would the 23rd Kit Walker be black?
    Last edited by pulphero; 02-03-2015, 11:25 PM.

    Comment


    • G'day,

      I suppose it depends if we include stand in Phantoms or not. The Kings Watch Phantom was a stand in Phantom, just like Lothar-Phantom. I guess it also depends what number they were up too before the first stand in took over. I guess we just have to wait and see how the story unfolds.

      As to a black Phantom, well a Phantom did the horizontal folk dance with a black girl I assume. Who the real Walker is remains a mystery, I haven't been able to detect and clues.

      ta

      Ralph

      Originally posted by pulphero View Post
      And where did they say that, exactly? KING: THE PHANTOM #1 gives a clear indication that Lothar is not the 23rd Phantom, so if the fellow in KINGS WATCH was not a Walker, then he would not be the 22nd Phantom. So unless the Phantom before him was actually the 22nd Phantom, it seems to me that he was a Walker.


      Why would the 23rd Kit Walker be black?

      Comment


      • G'day,

        Regarding the Arborian Village. It seems most of the invading Mongoian(?) warriors have been left behind on Earth. Some of them are trying to settle peacefully on Earth including Africa. There was a nice little story of an alien making friens with a Russian Jewish family in the Flash Gordon annual.

        Ralph

        Originally posted by pulphero View Post
        KING: THE PHANTOM #1 was pretty good. Lothar mentions he's not the 23rd Phantom, he's just carrying on the mission until he can locate the missing Mr. Walker. Guess that means that the Phantom we saw in KINGS WATCH was the 22nd... which leads me to wonder if he's an older version of the character from DE's earlier series, THE LAST PHANTOM...? I hope Lothar really does find the 23rd heir to the Walker legacy by the end of this series. One odd note was when Lothar refers to a small African village as "the Arborian Village" (???) Isn't that part of Mongo's conquered empire?

        Don't be fooled by the slug on the cover saying "Guest-starring MANDRAKE the Magician". He's in ONE panel. OK, two if you consider that the larger panel where he's standing with his back to us (and doesn't have any dialogue) has a smaller inset panel showing a closeup head shot, where he does have a couple of lines of dialogue. So more like, "Cameo Appearance by MANDRAKE the Magician".

        Comment


        • Originally posted by ralphuniverse View Post
          As to a black Phantom, well a Phantom did the horizontal folk dance with a black girl I assume. Who the real Walker is remains a mystery, I haven't been able to detect and clues.
          Probably because Lothar doesn't have any clues at this point. You didn't expect him to be a background character who's been just quietly hanging around, did you?

          Gee, you had to go and remind me of "Nick Fury, Junior" didn't you? Probably best not to go there, if for no other reason than it would immediately make you wonder, for a guy whose ancestors for the previous 400 years spent the majority of their time in Africa, why he was the first.

          Comment


          • G'day,

            The reason why he was the first is simple American racial taboos of Lee Falk's era. Phantoms had wives of various races, Indian, Mongolian as well as European but never a Negress. Just wasn't done in the 40's and 50s. Lee Falk himself may have been OK about such matters, after all Mandrake & Lothar were one of the first mixed race comic book partnerships, but I doubt the readers would have approved.

            I think if and when king Features start doing the story of Phantom 22 he should absolutely have a black Aftrican girl friend. (Maybe Lothar has a cute sister)

            ta

            Ralph


            Originally posted by pulphero View Post
            Probably because Lothar doesn't have any clues at this point. You didn't expect him to be a background character who's been just quietly hanging around, did you?

            Gee, you had to go and remind me of "Nick Fury, Junior" didn't you? Probably best not to go there, if for no other reason than it would immediately make you wonder, for a guy whose ancestors for the previous 400 years spent the majority of their time in Africa, why he was the first.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ralphuniverse View Post
              G'day,

              The reason why he was the first is simple American racial taboos of Lee Falk's era. Phantoms had wives of various races, Indian, Mongolian as well as European but never a Negress. Just wasn't done in the 40's and 50s.
              Yes, the reasons in terms of publishing and the strip's history are quite obvious, thanks. It doesn't explain the reason in the context of the reality of the world that exists within the comic strip, though. The Phantom (ANY of the 21 Phantoms) wouldn't be concerned with social taboos. Introducing this element to the character now just seems to cast a spotlight on that puzzling oddity, so to me it would seem better to just not draw attention to it.
              Last edited by pulphero; 02-04-2015, 09:52 AM.

              Comment


              • Better late than never?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by ChastMastr View Post
                  Better late than never?
                  If established as canonical, it would affect the entire Phantom dynasty, moving forward from the 23rd Phantom. So it isn't a question of "Well, can't we just have ONE black Phantom?" (and you could say that Lothar is fulfilling that function). One could say that it would be quite a few years before we would have to think about the next Phantom, but in this case, the old ditty "once you go black, you never go back" applies... that, or a reboot. At least, as applied to DYNAMITE comics featuring the Phantom... I sincerely doubt that King Features would allow what happens in DE's Phantom to affect the main strip (where at present, he's still the 21st Phantom).

                  I would just prefer my DE Phantom comic books to have some sort of continuity if possible, rather than be throwaway "elseworlds" type standalone stories. Personally, I'm still waiting to see if THE LAST PHANTOM can still be incorporated somehow into the continuity of KINGS WATCH/FLASH GORDON/KING. I mean, if DE is prepared to commit to a black 23rd Phantom going forward in their licensing agreement with King Features, then fine. Then we just sit back and wait to see whether that Phantom is the one that people want to read, and that sells. If not... another do-over.
                  Last edited by pulphero; 02-05-2015, 02:01 AM.

                  Comment


                  • KING: FLASH GORDON #1

                    Shifting gears here (since this is the King "megathread"), I read KING: FLASH GORDON #1 yesterday. Not really much to say about this, other than it could easily have been FLASH GORDON #9 from the previous series. Other than sporting an awesome Darwyn Cooke cover, it picks up right where the last series left off. I'm already missing the creative team of Jeff Parker and Evan Shaner, though. The writing team of Ben Acker and Ben Blacker didn't do a bad job here, but Lee Ferguson's artwork seemed like a step down from Evan Shaner.

                    Comment


                    • G'day,

                      I don't want to get to deep here but the Phantom is a dynasty similar to a royal family. Many royal believe their authority comes from God, the "Divine Right to Rule" Now lets look at the Phantom. It started off when the first Phantom took the Skull Oath:

                      “I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice!” he cried as he formally took “The Oath of the Skull” by firelight. “And my sons and their sons shall follow me!”



                      That oath had the spiritual power of a curse, but it wasn't a curse, it was the opposite, a blessing. So for nearly 500 years now there always has been a Phantom to wisely rule and bring justice to his people.

                      Which brings us to a interesting question, what happens if the Phantom has a daughter and no sons? Or if he is childless? If it was a royal family the throne would go to the daughter and there would be a Queen. If the monarch was childless (think Elisabeth 1) it would go to the next closest relative. Would it be similar with the Phantom? I have no idea, but if say, Kit & Heloise were killed the Skull Throne may very well go to the next closest relative who can be of any race.

                      ta

                      Ralph


                      Originally posted by pulphero View Post
                      If established as canonical, it would affect the entire Phantom dynasty, moving forward from the 23rd Phantom. So it isn't a question of "Well, can't we just have ONE black Phantom?" (and you could say that Lothar is fulfilling that function). One could say that it would be quite a few years before we would have to think about the next Phantom, but in this case, the old ditty "once you go black, you never go back" applies... that, or a reboot. At least, as applied to DYNAMITE comics featuring the Phantom... I sincerely doubt that King Features would allow what happens in DE's Phantom to affect the main strip (where at present, he's still the 21st Phantom).

                      I would just prefer my DE Phantom comic books to have some sort of continuity if possible, rather than be throwaway "elseworlds" type standalone stories. Personally, I'm still waiting to see if THE LAST PHANTOM can still be incorporated somehow into the continuity of KINGS WATCH/FLASH GORDON/KING. I mean, if DE is prepared to commit to a black 23rd Phantom going forward in their licensing agreement with King Features, then fine. Then we just sit back and wait to see whether that Phantom is the one that people want to read, and that sells. If not... another do-over.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by ralphuniverse View Post
                        G'day,

                        I don't want to get to deep here but the Phantom is a dynasty similar to a royal family. Many royal believe their authority comes from God, the "Divine Right to Rule" Now lets look at the Phantom. It started off when the first Phantom took the Skull Oath:

                        “I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice!” he cried as he formally took “The Oath of the Skull” by firelight. “And my sons and their sons shall follow me!”



                        That oath had the spiritual power of a curse, but it wasn't a curse, it was the opposite, a blessing. So for nearly 500 years now there always has been a Phantom to wisely rule and bring justice to his people.

                        Which brings us to a interesting question, what happens if the Phantom has a daughter and no sons? Or if he is childless? If it was a royal family the throne would go to the daughter and there would be a Queen. If the monarch was childless (think Elisabeth 1) it would go to the next closest relative. Would it be similar with the Phantom? I have no idea, but if say, Kit & Heloise were killed the Skull Throne may very well go to the next closest relative who can be of any race.

                        ta

                        Ralph
                        But. And this is strictly a matter of opinion, I guess, for which everyone that likes the Phantom would have his or her own answer. But let me ask you, Ralph. If you knew that King Features was committed to "updating" the Phantom for a 21st Century audience, and this is what you're going to be stuck with for as long as they continue to publish the character... is it what YOU want to read?

                        Comment


                        • G'day,

                          What? A black Phantom? What I would want to see is the current Kit replace his father and then find himself a nice African girlfriend. I'm just an old romantic. Also for Heloise to be a major character in her own right but not as a girl Phantom. That would you give you more story telling potential and even address any PC "diversity" BS. However this is DE who seem proud of hiring writer with limited knowledge of the long history of the characters and has been having a disputation with Hermes Press over their right to publish Phantom stories. God ( and Nick Barrucci ), knows whats going on.

                          ta

                          Ralph

                          Originally posted by pulphero View Post
                          But. And this is strictly a matter of opinion, I guess, for which everyone that likes the Phantom would have his or her own answer. But let me ask you, Ralph. If you knew that King Features was committed to "updating" the Phantom for a 21st Century audience, and this is what you're going to be stuck with for as long as they continue to publish the character... is it what YOU want to read?

                          Comment


                          • Seems to me a GIRL Phantom would also represent diversity, as much as any black Phantom - at least in the context of the "boys club" that is the Phantom dynasty. If no male heirs exist, or the existing one is killed before siring a male heir himself, it would be the only way for the legacy to carry on.

                            Comment


                            • G'day,

                              Yep, at a girl Phantom is what I think DE might give us.

                              ta

                              Ralph

                              Originally posted by pulphero View Post
                              Seems to me a GIRL Phantom would also represent diversity, as much as any black Phantom - at least in the context of the "boys club" that is the Phantom dynasty. If no male heirs exist, or the existing one is killed before siring a male heir himself, it would be the only way for the legacy to carry on.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by ralphuniverse View Post
                                and even address any PC "diversity" BS.
                                Diversity isn't BS. Whether the next Phantom should be non-caucasian or not, diversity is a very good thing that's finally no longer being neglected.

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