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Batman '66 meets The Green Hornet!

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  • #16
    To me the New 52 was a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. There were problems that needed to be fixed. problems that crop up when characters are in their 30's and have over 70 years of history, or even 20 or 30 years. I just think they went to far. I think they alienated to many long time fans in an attempt to bring in new fans. I'm down to 2 books (3 if theres another Tom Strong book ) and i'm getting close to dropping Earth 2. I page through an occasional issue but nothing has caught me.
    Always remember, Murphy was an optimist
    Munchkin 1, 2, 4, 7 Super Munchkin 1&2, Munchkin Bites 1&2, Munchkin Fu, Star Munchkin Deluxe and Star 2
    http://ghornet.deviantart.com/

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    • #17
      G'day,

      Wonder what the sales figures are for the new DC stuff. I understand DC's market share is about 30% but I suspect that could be in a declining market.

      Ralph

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      • #18
        Originally posted by ralphuniverse View Post
        G'day,

        Wonder what the sales figures are for the new DC stuff. I understand DC's market share is about 30% but I suspect that could be in a declining market.

        Ralph
        Yeah, it's not "New" any more. Aside from whatever monthly stunts they have planned, things have settled back to pre-52 sales levels. DC seems to think a handful of upcoming weekly books will save their market share, but based on past years (52, Countdown and Trinity) I think they're deluded. Sales on those titles dipped precipitously in the course of a year. I think weeklies can work if not overdone, but they need to be contained in a window of say, 3-4 months.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by ChastMastr View Post
          See, my interest in JL 3000 is solely because of DeMatteis. To me much of the New 52 is trampling on the characters far more.
          I'd rather see him writing a Creature Commandos title. Was it really necessary to make all the JL clones such complete dicks? How can I care about such characters?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by pulphero View Post
            EDIT: After checking wikipedia on this, it claims BATMM takes place after "Year One" but before "The Man Who Laughs". I'm a little confused about where the Jeph Loeb/Tim Sales stories fit into that picture, but maybe it's a different continuity.
            Between the Wagner stories, the Loeb/Sale stuff, and Prey/Terror, I think it's set up where you can pick one of those to be your official continuity. Although, if you're feeling really jaunty, you can get the Wagner and Moench stories to work together, back and forth between pages -- http://www.therealbatmanchronologypr...-era/year-one/

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            • #21
              This is my own approach to continuity:

              http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity

              This way I don't have to jam together different stories separated by too many years, and different notions of the characters, together. It works for me, anyway.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by pulphero View Post
                I'd rather see him writing a Creature Commandos title. Was it really necessary to make all the JL clones such complete dicks? How can I care about such characters?
                Ah, but since this is DeMatteis, there will be redemptive elements in there which may not be found in some of the other books. That's part of why I love his stuff so.

                I feel the same way about much of the New 52, re making the characters into complete dicks (or worse). At least with DeMatteis I am assured there will be something better mixed in.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by ChastMastr View Post
                  Ah, but since this is DeMatteis, there will be redemptive elements in there which may not be found in some of the other books. That's part of why I love his stuff so.

                  I feel the same way about much of the New 52, re making the characters into complete dicks (or worse). At least with DeMatteis I am assured there will be something better mixed in.
                  OK, so he can do no wrong by your estimation. Bad as most New 52 superheroes are (and I usually like DeMatteis's work), I gotta call 'em as I see 'em -- rarely have I felt such utter revulsion after reading a single comic book that it's an act of will to refrain from tearing it in half and whipping it into the trashcan. It brings 'mean-spirited' to a whole new level. At least with Earth 2 I was somewhat prepared going into it.

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                  • #24
                    It is in my buy pile at the store, so I have not yet read it. But remember, these are apparently clones (or something) of the JL, not the same people, who may have to grow and become heroes, or some such. Though honestly, some of the current New 52 members are dickish--or far, far worse, actually--to an amazing level that I'd be surprised to see JL 3000 surpass. The kind of revulsion you describe is how I already feel about Geoff Johns' writing of Hal and Diana, for instance--some specific scenes he's done with both in JL make me genuinely angry and horrified.
                    Last edited by ChastMastr; 03-17-2014, 06:36 PM.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by ChastMastr View Post
                      It is in my buy pile at the store, so I have not yet read it. But remember, these are apparently clones (or something) of the JL, not the same people, who may have to grow and become heroes, or some such. Though honestly, some of the current New 52 members are dickish--or far, far worse, actually--to an amazing level that I'd be surprised to see JL 3000 surpass. The kind of revulsion you describe is how I already feel about Geoff Johns' writing of Hal and Diana, for instance--some specific scenes he's done with both in JL make me genuinely angry and horrified.
                      I see that I'm not really getting through here. Regardless of how you feel about Geoff Johns, I'm sure he was not intending those characters to come off as dicks. In the case of JL3000, it is quite purposeful, these characters are thoroughly complete and utter dicks, the sort of superhero characters you might expect to find in something like Garth Ennis' The Boys or John Wagner's Marshal Law. They just happen to have the powers, abilities, and names of the Justice League. And Howard Porter's artwork here is particularly brutal and ugly. These sorts of things can work for puncturing the genre's tropes when done in a limited and pointed way, but it's been done before, and better. And without tarnishing the actual names in the process.

                      I was hoping for some sort of alternative to the dark and depressive overtones of the New 52, which works well for the magic/supernatural characters, given the Vertigo influence, but not so well for the spandex-clad regular heroes. Perhaps I was expecting something more along the lines of the still-somewhat-optimistic LSH 30th Century (even though it had grown darker over the years), crossed with the lighthearted JLI approach. This was the polar opposite, even darker and more cynical.
                      Last edited by pulphero; 03-18-2014, 09:11 PM.

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                      • #26
                        Ah. Well, I'll just have to read the issues when I can get them; if the characters are truly awful people, and intentionally so, this being DeMatteis I'm quite sure redemptive stuff is in the works for them. I was not expecting anything Legionesque from this, myself.

                        As for, "Regardless of how you feel about Geoff Johns, I'm sure he was not intending those characters to come off as dicks," I think that would make it all the more disturbing, because that would mean he has no problem with the kind of attitudes/behavior the characters show. He didn't seem to do this kind of thing (at least, his heroes didn't) before the reboot, and I haven't been able to figure out why they're all so horrible now.

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                        • #27
                          I am very excited about this story. I am on board to purchase every issue.

                          I would also love to see a Green Hornet Year One team up with some other appropriate version of the Batman.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by pulphero View Post
                            Don't get me wrong, I'm loving the Batman '66 comic, and it will be nice to see the 1960s Green Hornet and Kato again (for the first time since the early 1990s, when NOW Comics had the license). The thing is, though, haven't we already all seen that team-up on the television series? True enough, that episode perhaps left something to be desired, from a scripting standpoint. But the mind can't help but wander, and wonder...

                            Wouldn't it be cool to see something like a 1939 Batman/Hornet encounter written and drawn by Matt Wagner? Think of it as a belated sequel to his two Batman Dark Moon Rising miniseries, as well as a sequel to his Green Hornet Year One series.

                            Or even a modern era team-up (or "versus") by someone like the current Detective Comics creative team of John Layton and Jason Fabok? Yeah, I can see the Bruce Lee version of Kato taking Damian Wayne's Robin down a peg or two...

                            Maybe even some kind of crazy Batman Beyond one-shot with Terry McGinnis meeting some new Reid scion wearing a Kamen Rider-style insectoid armored high-tech suit.

                            And Kevin Smith's mention of a cartoon had me dreaming of a "DC Universe Original Animated Movie" DTV spinoff of the gone-but-not-forgotten Batman: The Brave and the Bold animated series, with Diedrich Bader rather than Adam West as Batman. Hey, Batman teamed up with Space Ghost in one episode, which makes anything seem possible.

                            Hopefully, we will see these other Batman/Green Hornet team ups! After all, Waid has left his mark on the 1940s Green Hornet and he is jumping at the chance to tell the 1960s Green Hornet with this series. I hope Waid gets to tell a future or present day Green Hornet as well.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by ChastMastr View Post
                              He didn't seem to do this kind of thing (at least, his heroes didn't) before the reboot, and I haven't been able to figure out why they're all so horrible now.
                              Johns spent ten years fixing all the broken toys in DC's toy box: JSA, Hawkman, Teen Titans, Green Lantern, LSH. When Lee and DiDio decided to break all the toys again, I think it was too much for him; he took the raise, but it broke his heart. I think Johns' outlook was fundamentally at odds with Lee & DiDio's vision of things. Marketing-man DiDio (who hates Nightwing) never really understood what Johns' great appeal was, in the pre-52 scheme of things, while Lee's definition of 'cool' is stuck in the early '90s, his personal 'golden age'.

                              And things are about to get worse, with DC entering its own 'Dark Reign', and Lex Luthor running the Justice League. Here we go again -- bad-guy 'hero of the revolution' gets to make his power play from the inside as a public hero. Well, if you're not really allowed to write heroes anyway, what are you gonna do? Write villains, that's all that left.

                              What makes you think DeMatteis is immune? Garbage is garbage, nothing worth redeeming there. Not a 30th century I care one iota about.
                              Last edited by pulphero; 03-19-2014, 01:24 PM.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by pulphero View Post
                                What makes you think DeMatteis is immune?
                                Because one of the things DeMatteis does is redemption stories.

                                Garbage is garbage, nothing worth redeeming there. Not a 30th century I care one iota about.
                                Ah, but that is where we must disagree--the whole idea, indeed, of redemption (especially in the transcendent way DeMatteis tends to approach it) is that even what one might consider "garbage" is worth redeeming--that, indeed, there is nothing which is not worth redeeming. I recommend his excellent graphic novel Mercy for a good example...

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