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The Green Hornet series MEGATHREAD!

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  • Ok. I see what you're saying. He's a goof not a jerk.

    I want the Green Hornet to sell well. The sales should be much higher for a character like that. Kevin Smith's style of writing doesn't suit the character. He drove away more readers than he attracted.

    "Green Hornet isn't spot on perfect." You're a laugh riot. He is nothing like that at all. The movie producers didn't want his script so why should anybody else?

    Originally posted by comixfan1980 View Post
    It's just his "generation X" style persona, he's just a goof like that and it's just him screwing around,

    I think you are just a tad bit butt hurt over the fact that the best selling version of Green Hornet isn't spot on perfect with how you remembered the character in his heyday.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Mr. Fantastic View Post
      I want the Green Hornet to sell well. The sales should be much higher for a character like that. Kevin Smith's style of writing doesn't suit the character. He drove away more readers than he attracted.
      How does that make any sense? When the first issue sold 50,000+, it was because Smith was part of the attraction in the first place.

      Sure, the book couldn't maintain that pace. It was to be expected. None of the other books maintained their original sales figures either. But his still sell twice as much as the next one.

      I once heard someone defend boy bands on the basis that as irritating as they are to people who love music, they create new music fans who eventually mature, smarten up, and discover the good stuff.

      Kevin Smith does that for this character. I think you overrate the popularity of the character among young people today. He (the Hornet) has not had regular exposure in many years. To the general public under 30 or so, he means very little if they even know him. Smith provided mainstream exposure that very few other writers could provide.

      Comment


      • The initially high sales volume of the Green Hornet was due to dealers over ordering. The comic books dealers determine how many books they will buy based on factors like how many they think they can sell and variant covers. They then adjust how many they order from Diamond based on what they sold. Because of the way comic books are marketed, readers don't directly influence sales.

        Kevin Smith may have a following. But how many of them read comic books? Not likely very many. Not very many people read comic books these days for that matter. His following are movie goers. The sales that could be attributed to him would likely be a very small percentage of sales. It sold because the comic book dealers ordered it not because Kevin Smith wrote it. It lost sales because Kevin Smith wrote it.

        I guess you didn't read any of the previous messages I wrote or chose to ignore them. I already pointed out before why the Kevin Smith title sells more than the others. He wrote a contemporary version. The other titles were specialized. He had the opportunity to write the flagship title.

        Kevin Smith is the most incompatible writer that could possibly write the Green Hornet. The Green Hornet is a highly dignified character and Kevin Smith is a highly undignified writer.

        I don't think the Green Hornet is popular with the younger generation or that they even know him and I never said that. I am saying that the most of the readers left remaining will be those who are new to the Green Hornet.



        Originally posted by Captain Canuck View Post
        How does that make any sense? When the first issue sold 50,000+, it was because Smith was part of the attraction in the first place.

        Sure, the book couldn't maintain that pace.

        Kevin Smith does that for this character. I think you overrate the popularity of the character among young people today .

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Mr. Fantastic View Post
          It sold because the comic book dealers ordered it not because Kevin Smith wrote it.
          Well, you're getting close! Why was this book over-ordered when the others were not? Because Smith's name was attached to it!

          You think that the 50,000 in sales was driven largely by long-time fans who were excited for the character to return to comics only to find they had bought a poor product and dropped it immediately? Yet these same long-time fans did not know of another book being released a couple of weeks later which was clearly more traditional?

          Originally posted by Mr. Fantastic View Post
          I guess you didn't read any of the previous messages I wrote or chose to ignore them. I already pointed out before why the Kevin Smith title sells more than the others. He wrote a contemporary version. The other titles were specialized. He had the opportunity to write the flagship title.
          No, my difficulty is that you are all over the place. You said:

          "The sales of Kevin Smith Green Hornet are so high because this was the first Green Hornet title that Dynamite released."

          I responded that "In general, there isn't a lot of interest in books that take place in the 40's" to illustrate that release schedule alone wouldn't have caused the discrepancy. *I* was the one who pointed out that a contemporary version is an easier sell.

          You say that being a modern-day version helps it sell after also stating that TV show version is "the Green Hornet that fans know. They want the real thing not an imaginary version."

          Simply put, your argument is inconsistent. You claim people really want the version from the TV show but that a contemporary version is a better sell. You believe that there are still enough fans of a 40 year old TV show out there to support a book, but apparently they're too dense to buy the book they really want (Year One) because they're blinded by marketing. You don't accept that Kevin Smith brings in new fans, but his book is among Dynamite's best-sellers even though, to you, it's not the book people actually want.

          While looking something up, I came across an old Newsarama message board post. It may help prove that comixfan and I are not making this stuff up:

          Newsarama has learned writer Kevin Smith - arguably the industry’s current most widely recognized and popular creator - will also agree to a multi-year exclusive contract with Marvel...
          Dude's popular. I can't explain it, and I don't personally like him but I can't deny it. His handling of Batman and the Hornet made Entertainment Weekly.

          http://popwatch.ew.com/2009/05/13/kevin-smith-com/

          (I did read the first few issues of Batman: Widening Gyre and his work for that character was nowhere near as juvenile. If only he'd applied that approach to the Hornet...)

          Comment


          • Why did the book lose over 35,000 in sales each month in such a short period of time is the question. The dealers misjudged how many they could sell is why. If any thought that Kevin Smith's name could sell the book they were wrong. Kevin Smith's writing is driving readers away is one of the reasons.

            I am not all over the place. There are many factors that influenced the sale of the book. It was the first book to market, the subject of advertising hype, a contemporary version, many variant covers, fans thinking it would be like the television program, interest in the character returning after a long period, dealers misjudging how many they could sell being the prime reason.

            The books that were released subsequently are not clearly more traditional as you say. They are not traditional at all. For instance, The Green Hornet Strikes used the name of the movie serial but is nothing like the Green Hornet at all.

            Look at Iron Man. The 2008 movie was the one of the most popular comic book movies ever released. Iron Man is more relevant now then he was in the sixties. The movie was true to his origin. Tony Stark is still Iron Man. It's still the same as the sixties except it takes place against a modern backdrop.

            It would take very little to update the Green Hornet television program. The automobiles, clothing, and telephones have changed but not as dramatically as they have since the time of the radio program. There is very little that separates it from a contemporary version.

            Fans do a prefer a contemporary version. That doesn't mean they will settle for poor writing or unfavorable changes. The readers who will are the ones who are new to the Green Hornet.




            Originally posted by Captain Canuck View Post
            Well, you're getting close! Why was this book over-ordered when the others were not?

            You think that the 50,000 in sales was driven largely by long-time fans who were excited for the character to return to comics only to find they had bought a poor product and dropped it immediately?


            No, my difficulty is that you are all over the place.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Mr. Fantastic View Post
              Kevin Smith's writing is driving readers away is one of the reasons.
              We've shown you how it happens to EVERY book. Is Matt Wagner driving people away from his book?

              Originally posted by Mr. Fantastic View Post
              The books that were released subsequently are not clearly more traditional as you say. They are not traditional at all. For instance, The Green Hornet Strikes used the name of the movie serial but is nothing like the Green Hornet at all.
              I'm referring to Year One specifically. It is far closer in tone to what I believe one would expect from a traditional version. But it has also seen its sales cut in half.

              The problem you're having is you believe that the TV show is what the Hornet should be. I am all for being true to the source material, however I ma also open minded to modifications to reflect the present times. Peter Parker went from being bitten by a radioactive spider to a genetically-engineered one in the movies. He went from having web-shooters to actually being able to shoot webs. It happens in order to attempt to appeal to today's audience.

              For all your claims as to what people want, months after the hype, KSGH still far outsells the other Hornet books. You can believe that some great wrong is being committed but from a business standpoint, that is the message that is what Dynamite will see and hear. And to their credit, they are also giving you a version of the character which suits your taste.

              Comment


              • For me, the worst part about that line was the follow up: "Dad would have loved it."

                Really? His father, who used his wits to capture criminals rather than take a human life, would have "loved" the fact that his son deliberately caused the death of another human being? I doubt it.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Tulku View Post
                  For me, the worst part about that line was the follow up: "Dad would have loved it."

                  Really? His father, who used his wits to capture criminals rather than take a human life, would have "loved" the fact that his son deliberately caused the death of another human being? I doubt it.
                  That raised an eyebrow here too. Mind you, we see in Blood Ties that Daddy Hornet was a bit of tough nut, but still. There are levels.

                  Comment


                  • KSGH lost over 64% of sales each month since the first issue. It continues to lose thousands of readers each month. It's nearly to the point where Marvel or DC would consider cancelling the book or rebooting it. The downward sales trend indicates readers are dissatisfied with the book. From a business point of view, it makes more sense to look at the reasons why readers are dropping the title instead of settling for less.

                    KSGH
                    Issue#-Sales

                    1-54,124
                    2-32,866
                    3-29,552
                    4-26,292
                    5-23,841
                    6-22,024
                    7-20,880
                    8-19,442



                    Originally posted by Captain Canuck View Post

                    For all your claims as to what people want, months after the hype, KSGH still far outsells the other Hornet books. You can believe that some great wrong is being committed but from a business standpoint, that is the message that is what Dynamite will see and hear. .

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mr. Fantastic View Post
                      The downward sales trend indicates readers are dissatisfied with the book. From a business point of view, it makes more sense to look at the reasons why readers are dropping the title instead of settling for less.
                      Do you hold Year One and Kato Origins to this standard?
                      Last edited by Captain Canuck; 12-08-2010, 06:34 PM.

                      Comment


                      • There's a lot of validity to what Fantastic is saying, but regardless of that the writing of Kevin Smith's story isn't the sole reason I stayed away from the title. (Counting myself as a normal reader.)

                        There's too many tie-ins. Too many discrepancies. Year 1 takes place in Chicago and Kevin Smith's title takes place in Century City... I mean where is the continuity for the title and characters for the books? Is Century City actually just Chicago in name? I don't know, but Kevin Smith's story takes a lot of twists and turns that really make a lot less sense than Matt Wagner's book. I think Wagner's story is really well thought out... Kevin Smith's book just seems to be a bunch of cliche junk meshed together to construct a half witted story. (Yes I am not a fan.)

                        Anyway, yes it is content that drove me away from Smith's book. I won't buy the trade either... I think it's garbage. But, does that mean the series can't rebound in sales? Comparatively? I hope so... but please do remember, Fantastic that Dynamite is a much smaller share of the market. I think they have put too many Green Hornet titles out there... and all the stories are seemingly unrelated to each other. This will confuse a buyer #1 and the poor writing will drive them away #2.

                        Anyway, that's my thoughts.
                        Last edited by zirron; 12-08-2010, 09:19 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by zirron View Post
                          Too many discrepancies. Year 1 takes place in Chicago and Kevin Smith's title takes place in Century City... I mean where is the continuity for the title and characters for the books?
                          There is none. Dynamite indeed should have been more clear on that. Calling a title "Year One" implies that it's year one of the modern-day character but that was never the case. They are both different versions of the character.

                          It's not a bad idea...as long as you promote it properly. And had they done a better job of that, the multiple title thing wouldn't be much of an issue. If I love the 40's version (and I do) I could choose to just buy the titles related to him and ignore Smith's (or vice versa). I wouldn't feel like I had to buy seven books a month to keep up with a story or read the same origin told three different ways (including parallel lives).

                          I look forward to finding out how Hester treats the book now. It's not like the character is particularly deep anyway so in a lot of ways, it's a blank slate for him.
                          Last edited by Captain Canuck; 12-08-2010, 09:26 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Cap,

                            I hope Hester's run is a good one too... I really want the flagship title to do well. The Green Hornet deserves to be in the limelight... it's a wonderful character.

                            I love Wagner's book too. I think he's done a great job with it.

                            I wish they had tied the books up much better... all the unrelated stories are confusing to the casual readers. I gave up myself on the tie-ins, myself.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by zirron View Post
                              but please do remember, Fantastic that Dynamite is a much smaller share of the market.
                              And still quite young as a publisher.

                              Comment


                              • But they are fun books to read. Most of my pull list is made up of Dynamite Books.

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