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Justice Inc unites Shadow, Avenger, Doc, and more.

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Magno View Post
    I don't want to hurt anyone's business--- but I think I've ordered figures from these guys before and never got the figures. I just e-mailed them about it but ended up in a maddening loop. Tried their forums page but there was no such page.
    Has anyone received any of these figures?? I had ordered a Blue Beetle and Golden Age Daredevil figure but got nothing. I think it was called "Shockers" ...at the time. Can anyone verify??
    Have to admit, as tempting as these figures look (and I'd love to have them) I was hesitant when I saw these online, knowing nothing about the company. You are correct that they used to go by the name Shocker Toys, and the name change just raised more questionable thoughts in my mind -- reorganized under a different name to avoid legal action?

    I want to say this almost seems like a Kickstarter-type deal, where they seem dependent on preorders to actually go into production, but without the oversight of the real Kickstarter's rules to govern them. That would mean that if they didn't get enough preorders, they could just keep your money and give you nothing, so... maybe you're better off waiting and seeing if some big internet toy collector site eventually gets these, and buying them through a middleman.

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    • #17
      Careful guys!!

      Originally posted by pulphero View Post
      Have to admit, as tempting as these figures look (and I'd love to have them) I was hesitant when I saw these online, knowing nothing about the company. You are correct that they used to go by the name Shocker Toys, and the name change just raised more questionable thoughts in my mind -- reorganized under a different name to avoid legal action?

      I want to say this almost seems like a Kickstarter-type deal, where they seem dependent on preorders to actually go into production, but without the oversight of the real Kickstarter's rules to govern them. That would mean that if they didn't get enough preorders, they could just keep your money and give you nothing, so... maybe you're better off waiting and seeing if some big internet toy collector site eventually gets these, and buying them through a middleman.
      Great suggestion, as usual. Yeah, maybe a lot of us out here would want some of these action figures, especially if "Project Superpowers" Ellis' writing takes us in a wonderful direction with the Golden Age heroes... but careful, guys, ... just sayin'.
      Last edited by Magno; 05-24-2014, 05:23 AM.

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      • #18
        Anyone know when the story is set?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by ChastMastr View Post
          Anyone know when the story is set?
          I don't think it said in the article, but I'm assuming sometime in the 1930s or 1940s would be the era.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by MajorHoy View Post
            I don't think it said in the article, but I'm assuming sometime in the 1930s or 1940s would be the era.
            I am hoping we will know soon.

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            • #21
              I'm looking forward to this series because I can see this being the launching pad for new mini's based around The Shadow, Green Hornet, Doc Savage, Black Bat, and other pulp icons. I'm betting that Dynamite will hype this book to the moon around launch time and that some great things will come out of it, and I'm hoping it leads to a resurgence in the pulp market for Dynamite.
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              • #22
                I'm hoping they can keep it on a regular monthly schedule . . . the delays on many other titles have not helped the cause!

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                • #23
                  If this book does well I am going to beg and plead Dynamite for more pulp. I feel so alone and naked with no Green Hornet, Spider, Shadow, or Black Bat to read each month and I'm really depressed that the ongoing books came to an end. But like we've all said before, if they can give us the bursts of mini's than I think I could totally eat that up and feel complete once more......it's just a matter of that finally happening.

                  As for Justice Inc, I'm all over it. Can't wait!

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by comixfan1980 View Post
                    I'm looking forward to this series because I can see this being the launching pad for new mini's based around The Shadow, Green Hornet, Doc Savage, Black Bat, and other pulp icons. I'm betting that Dynamite will hype this book to the moon around launch time and that some great things will come out of it, and I'm hoping it leads to a resurgence in the pulp market for Dynamite.
                    Not sure that I can see how it does anything for Green Hornet and Black Bat. Oddly, you didn't mention The Avenger, which seems the most likely character for Justice Inc. to serve as a launching pad for.

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                    • #25
                      I figure it's a launching pad for the Avenger and a way to keep the others in sight and help promote the Avenger.
                      Always remember, Murphy was an optimist
                      Munchkin 1, 2, 4, 7 Super Munchkin 1&2, Munchkin Bites 1&2, Munchkin Fu, Star Munchkin Deluxe and Star 2
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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by pulphero View Post
                        Not sure that I can see how it does anything for Green Hornet and Black Bat. Oddly, you didn't mention The Avenger, which seems the most likely character for Justice Inc. to serve as a launching pad for.
                        Because I'm sure that we will be seeing more than the advertised characters who are said to be in Justice Inc. Also, adding Green Hornet and Black Bat into the series would give them more exposure and hopefully revitalize these characters and prep everyone involved for a new mini.
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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by comixfan1980 View Post
                          Because I'm sure that we will be seeing more than the advertised characters who are said to be in Justice Inc. Also, adding Green Hornet and Black Bat into the series would give them more exposure and hopefully revitalize these characters and prep everyone involved for a new mini.
                          Not sure if you're psychic or just hopelessly optimistic. I'm concerned by DE's recent solicitations because of what I see as a trend away from this type of material that DE has traditionally published, with things like The Devilers and Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell. The only thing that seems guaranteed at this point is more Edgar Rice Burroughs material moving forward.

                          I wouldn't be too sure about seeing Green Hornet and Black Bat in Justice Inc. Here's what I don't think you're "getting" here. You're just looking at Justice Inc. and saying to yourself, "Well, it's just like Masks, right? Only with fewer characters. I'll bet they're just holding some of those other characters under wraps for a surprise reveal during the story itself." Nope, that's not it at all. Why THESE three particular characters in a story together? Because they all share the same former publisher: Street & Smith Co. published all three in their original pulp incarnations. So what, why is that important? Because those three characters also happened to be the three most successful in being reprinted in mass-market paperbacks during the 1970s. This was taking place at the same time that Marvel Comics was licensing Doc Savage, and DC was licensing The Shadow for comic books. Shortly thereafter, DC added a Justice Inc. title, which was really an adaptation of The Avenger (but which DC chose to name after the title of the first novel in The Avenger's series: "Justice Inc.", to avoid confusion or legal issues with Marvel Comics' The Avengers). Just like Doc Savage had his five aides, Richard Henry Benson (aka "The Avenger") had a similar team of aides, only he set up an office operating under the Justice Inc. title, so people could find them when they needed help. The fact that DE has chosen to use that title for a team-up of the 3 big Street & Smith pulp heroes is significant, as is the fact that when DC Comics was publishing both The Shadow and Justice Inc. in the 1970s, they had a crossover story between the two titles, and the writer of that story was one Michael Uslan. So he's already had experience handling 2/3rds of this team. DC didn't get the rights to Doc Savage until the late 1980s, at which time they did a crossover story between The Shadow and Doc Savage. They also did a 2-issue bookshelf-format Justice Inc series, but all three never teamed up. If you ask Mr. Uslan, I'm sure he'll tell you this is his dream team. Better read those interviews again. Sorry, I don't think you're going to see characters licensed from other owners like Green Hornet or The Spider, or even the public domain Black Bat, in this series. You're barking up the wrong tree there.

                          I can appreciate the fact that from the POV of someone looking backward from 2014, they'd look at The Avenger and say, "What was the big deal with this character, anyway? He only appeared in a pulp magazine that lasted 24 issues. The Spider appeared in 118 novels, and the Black Bat even more, even outlasting Doc Savage and The Shadow. By any yardstick, The Avenger pulp has to be considered a failure." But none of that mattered in the 1970s when the characters were being reprinted in paperback and being adapted to comic books. In fact, The Avenger was MORE successful in the 1970s than he had been in his original pulp run. Paperback Library had to commission 12 additional new novels in The Avenger series from writer Ron Goulart in the 1970s when the pulp reprints ran out. He was the first pulp character to be so honored. Unlike the short series of brand-new Shadow novels written by Dennis Lynds in the 1960s, this wasn't a conscious attempt to update the character to the present. The new Avenger novels continued set in the 1940s, right where the original pulp reprints left off. Street & Smith custom-designed The Avenger to combine some of the most successful elements from both Doc Savage and The Shadow. Doc was "The Man of Bronze", The Shadow was "The Man in Black", and Richard Henry Benson was "The Man of Steel". With his pale, immobile face, white hair, and steel-gray eyes, dressed all in gray, The Avenger was the halfway point between S&S's two most successful characters, but the timing for a new character was all wrong when he was introduced in 1939. He had better luck in the 1970s, with striking new cover artwork by Peter Caras.

                          I feel pretty confident that I'm right about this, because Mr. Uslan is only a few years older than I am, and I feel exactly where he's coming from. Doc, The Shadow, and The Avenger are the trifecta. The three most important pulp heroes (from the viewpoint of those who were reading them as paperback reprints and comic books in the 1970s) from the most important pulp publisher, Street & Smith. It's not that we don't like Green Hornet, The Spider, or Black Bat. But there were no Green Hornet pulp reprints (because there were no pulps) and comic books in the 1970s, and no Spider pulp reprints or comic books in the 1970s, or Black Bat pulp reprints or comic books in the 1970s. There had been about a half-dozen reprints of both The Spider and Black Bat in the 1960s, but they didn't sell that well, and the series were discontinued quickly. They were never around long enough to have the wider distribution (and comic book adaptations) of Doc Savage, The Shadow, and The Avenger paperback reprints.
                          Last edited by pulphero; 06-01-2014, 08:01 AM.

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                          • #28
                            Nick posted in a other thread saying "Who said we won't see them?" With a wink when someone asked about other heroes appearing within Justice Inc, so CF1980 may be on to something.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by BslytheGamerGuy View Post
                              Nick posted in a other thread saying "Who said we won't see them?" With a wink when someone asked about other heroes appearing within Justice Inc, so CF1980 may be on to something.
                              OK, I can pretty much guess where people's minds went on this thing. For anyone for whom the name JUSTICE INC. holds no recognition, as comic book readers, the "INC." is superfluous. I mean sure, when you see a team book with the word JUSTICE in the title, you're thinking LEAGUE, SOCIETY, INCORPORATED, it's all the same right? We comic book readers all *know* what JUSTICE means in a comic book title. It means the world's greatest superheroes (pulp style)! Didn't Alan Moore already do pretty much the same with The LEAGUE of Extraordinary Gentlemen for Victorian SF characters? It's *obvious* isn't it, that that's where they're heading, and they'll gradually add all the pulp characters they've published in the past until they fill the ranks of the All-Star Pulp Heroes lineup.

                              Nope. Before there was even a Justice Society in comic books, there was a Justice, Incorporated in the pages of Street & Smith's The Avenger magazine. Just imagine if Doc Savage and his crew of Monk, Ham, Long Tom, Renny, and Johnny had dreamed up a group name for their little organization, because that's what Richard Henry Benson did when he called himself and his crew of assistants (Fergus "Mac" MacMurdie, Algernon Heathcote "Smitty" Smith, Nellie Gray, and Josh & Rosabelle Newton; with later addition Cole Wilson) "Justice, Inc.". Just a freelance crew of humanitarians, organized to help out the little guy in the cause of justice. It's apt enough for DE to borrow for the team-up of The Avenger with The Shadow and Doc Savage (fellow Street & Smith pulp heroes), but has nothing to do with any of those other guys published by other pulp outfits or radio heroes like the Green Hornet.

                              I wouldn't put too much stock in Nick's little "nod and a wink"; since he's not the one writing it, and he never said you *would* see those characters in this series, either. (Doesn't mean you won't see them again at DE *somewhere*, though.) Now if you DO see them in JUSTICE INC. it won't be along the lines of Marvel's AVENGERS #4 when all of sudden Captain America pops up and joins the team. No, I would expect something more along the line of a cameo or walk-on role, where one of the Big 3 S&S characters needs some special expertise (Tony Quinn, D.A.) or a little intel (Daily Sentinel publisher Britt Reid), or some legwork done (Kato) while they pursue other main clues. But they don't really *need* those guys, either. Between the original Justice Inc. cast from The Avenger's series and Doc's "Amazing Five", there's already a group of 11 expert specialists (an even dozen including Pat Savage), and The Shadow can corral at least that many of his agents at the drop of a hat (or a phone call to Burbank). So potentially, instead of just 3, there are already plus or minus 2 dozen 'members and associates' working for Justice Incorporated. Doubt Michael Uslan will even be able to squeeze *that* many into however many issues this story runs, but I'm certain he can name them all from memory, so they'll probably get at least a name check.

                              Also, I'm not sure that people really got the fact that this is ONE story featuring Doc, the Shadow, and the Avenger, not an ongoing superteam series designed to build up characters not popular enough to support their own series right now until they *are* popular enough to spin off into their own series.

                              I can only suggest you read the wikipedia entry for The Avenger (since most of the people making this argument seem to be really unfamiliar with the character), and also go back and read Michael Uslan's comments made when the series was announced.

                              Uslan is pretty adamant about the fact that it's THESE three characters (Doc, Shadow, and Avenger) and compares them to DC's "trinity" of Superman, Batman & Wonder Woman or Marvel's Golden Age "Big 3", Captain America, Human Torch and Sub-Mariner. Don't see why he'd try to hammer home that point about the analogy between the 3 biggest characters belonging to a single publisher if the eventual plan was just to turn the series into "The Pulp Justice League" or "The Pulp Avengers".

                              I don't need to tell you guys that I am looking forward to this big time, perhaps more than anything DE has ever published. Not just because of what, to me, will always be the Holy Trinity of pulp heroes, but because I have absolute faith in Michael Uslan to deliver the goods. He knows these characters inside and out. Maybe I'm just looking forward to this for completely different reasons than many of you are.
                              Last edited by pulphero; 06-01-2014, 03:28 PM.

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                              • #30
                                This week's COMIC SHOP NEWS (#1407) has a cover story/interview with Michael Uslan about JUSTICE INC.

                                Very interesting. Turns out the genesis of this particular crossover story lies not with Nick Barrucci or Dynamite, but with Uslan himself. Some of you may know Michael Uslan as the Executive Producer of the enormously successful Batman film franchise. What you may not know is that he was also the Executive Producer of The Shadow film in 1994, and is the Executive Producer of the upcoming Doc Savage film. He's been trying to get both characters off the ground as film franchises, along with Batman, for many years, since the early 1980s in fact.

                                The story that became Dynamite's JUSTICE INC. 6-issue miniseries had its origins in a film treatment Uslan wrote many years ago. Frustrated at first in trying to bring The Shadow and Doc Savage to the big screen, he instead got the idea (in a reversal of Marvel's "cinematic universe" approach) to bring them together, along with Street & Smith's Avenger character in one film, with the intent of spinning off movies based on the individual characters. After Nick B. invited him to write the Shadow/Green Hornet crossover comic, Uslan sent him the treatment with a note to the effect of "If you can ever get the rights to all the characters, I'd love to do this as a comic".

                                Readers of Dynamite's previous Uslan-scribed crossover can expect to the see the same sort of heavily-footnoted background references to historical personages and events. This will not, however, be the sort of "super hero team" where the individual characters see eye-to-eye on their mutual goals, plan of action, and methods of operation. There's considerable friction between the main characters according to their individual viewpoints and approaches to justice.

                                When asked about the possibility of JUSTICE INC. serving as a "launching pad" for further DE comic stories of Doc Savage and The Shadow, Dynamite Senior Editor Joe Rybandt offered the following nonspecific (but nonetheless encouraging) comment: "We will be doing new material with both, along with adding The Avenger into the mix. And we haven't forgotten about our other pulp characters, rest assured!" Asked if he had more stories to tell about these pulp characters, Michael Uslan commented that "I told Nick Barrucci that if he wants me back to do more writing on these characters, I would love to do three more of what I call my 'dream cross-overs'... if he can ever get the rights worked out."

                                Nothing concrete there to hang on, but certainly it evokes the right attitude of positivity.
                                Last edited by pulphero; 06-03-2014, 09:05 PM.

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