The Black Bat series MEGATHREAD!

Anyone else think the Black Bat would make a great addition to the pulp lineup that Dynamite has going on currently? He's a cool character that kind of reminds me of Batman in a way, but he was created years before Batman and I'm sure some of his influence went into the creation of Batman back in those early days of comics. Any which way, he's got a cool story, a great look, and he would totally fit in with the whole "pulp" line of comics that Dynamite has got going on, I would certainly purchase it in a heartbeat.

I also wouldn't mind seeing Phantom Detective too, the more "pulp" the better......especially when you're publishing many classic pulp characters already!

[positronic]

Moonstone Books has these characters (along with The Spider and Domino Lady) but they're such a tiny publisher that they rarely release a new comic. Their first Black Bat comic came out over a year ago, with no follow-up yet, unless you count a Black Bat vs. Dracula one-shot and a role in the pulp hero team-up story Return of The Originals: The Battle for LA.

I'm sure Dynamite would do a better job, though.

Allow me to disabuse you of a misconception. The first Black Bat novel (actually he appeared in a pulp called Black Book Detective) came out a month after Detective Comics #27 (May 1939), although the story was first submitted to the publisher in December 1938. Interesting trivia: when the story was first submitted, the character was called The Tiger, and the editor changed the character to The Black Bat in order to go with the title of the pulp magazine Black Book Detective.

[Chadster]

Just looked up The Black Bat and wow, this guy is awesome! I would love to see him under the DE banner!

Same goes for Doc Savage, The Avenger, and The Phantom Detective, it would be an awesome universe of pulp classics in comic book form!

I hope NICK reads this!

[Chadster]

I'll take Black Bat, The Avenger (with a cool new look), and some other classic pulp heroes with nice updates! I love the updated look for The Spider!

[BugsySig]

Yeah, he's cool and all, as are the others people mentioned, but how many pulp heroes can Dynamite feasibly publish at one time? Doc Savage, sure, because he is well known and has a different twist. But they already have Spider, Breen Hormet and Shadow, who are all basically the same character.

[positronic]

The Green Hornet (like the Lone Ranger) doesn't kill.

The Shadow kills dispassionately, without malice but without remorse, and plays the long game, manipulating people and events like a chess master.

The Spider kills with extreme prejudice, has deep emotions and sensitivities, and has a Messianic complex.

All very different characters, despite similarities in appearance.

[BugsySig]

The Green Hornet (like the Lone Ranger) doesn't kill.

The Shadow kills dispassionately, without malice but without remorse, and plays the long game, manipulating people and events like a chess master.

The Spider kills with extreme prejudice, has deep emotions and sensitivities, and has a Messianic complex.

All very different characters, despite similarities in appearance.

But, again, all similar looking pulp heroes fighting crime/evil in the big city with nary a superpower (other than clouding men's minds). How many MORE books like that can Dynamite successfully publish? The market will dry up on them pretty quickly, then the books they do have--which are all pretty good--will suffer.

I would just prefer they diversify their pulp to other areas like Sci-fi puld/Flash Gordon, Jungle Adventure/Phantom, Magician/Mandrake, Horroe/Vampirella, etc before going back to the well on a similar concept to what they already produce.

[positronic]

Isn't every superhero comic ever published some sort of variation on Superman and/or Batman? Don't they all dress in similar tight-fitting longjohns? Aren't they all vigilantes who fight crime? Still waiting for the market for these too-similar characters to dry up. Having "nary a superpower" doesn't seem to have hampered Batman's popularity. Come to think of it, Captain America doesn't really have any superpowers, wears a tight-fitting costume and mask, and fights crime, so isn't he essentially the same as Batman?

So yeah, if the 1930s/40s style of pulp hero characters all seem similar, how is that any different? As it happens, you've picked out the three that are probably most similar at a casual glance. Other pulp heroes had significantly different looks or styles of adventure. But of course, DE is publishing those particular characters because they were among the most popular and well-remembered of that type of character. And in no way is that type of character in danger of dominating DE's lineup of titles in the way that superheroes dominate Marvel and DC's output. In fact, if DE does decide to do more adapations of pulp characters, there aren't that many left that will have a similar look and MO to the ones they already publish. The most likely prospects would be characters like Doc Savage, The Avenger, or Captain Future. They could dig into the lesser-knowns like the Black Bat or the Moon Man, Secret Agent X or G-8 and His Battle Aces, The Whisperer or dozens more that only pulp afficionados have heard of, but it seems unlikely.

For that matter, if it's not something you're interested in, it's pretty easy to just lump it together, isn't it?

[Ghornet2]

Doc Savage

I'd like to see DE take a shot at Doc Savage or the Avenger. I'm a long time Doc fan and only picked up the first issue of DC's First wave title for Doc. Can you say garbage? Doc's Mayan connection just seems to make it appropriate to do now. Of course we'd only get an issue or 2 if the Mayan's are right.

[comixfan1980]

I'd like to see DE take a shot at Doc Savage or the Avenger. I'm a long time Doc fan and only picked up the first issue of DC's First wave title for Doc. Can you say garbage? Doc's Mayan connection just seems to make it appropriate to do now. Of course we'd only get an issue or 2 if the Mayan's are right.

I wouldn't mind seeing The Avenger published by Dynamite, but they'd have to do something about his look to make him unique because as it stands the main character looks kind of bland. Same could be said for The Spider before Dynamite revamped his look. But yeah, Doc Savge is kind of in the same boat, but I would love to see Black Bat published under DE as I think they could do some cool stuff with him and his look.

[BugsySig]

Isn't every superhero comic ever published some sort of variation on Superman and/or Batman? Don't they all dress in similar tight-fitting longjohns? Aren't they all vigilantes who fight crime? Still waiting for the market for these too-similar characters to dry up. Having "nary a superpower" doesn't seem to have hampered Batman's popularity. Come to think of it, Captain America doesn't really have any superpowers, wears a tight-fitting costume and mask, and fights crime, so isn't he essentially the same as Batman?

So yeah, if the 1930s/40s style of pulp hero characters all seem similar, how is that any different? As it happens, you've picked out the three that are probably most similar at a casual glance. Other pulp heroes had significantly different looks or styles of adventure. But of course, DE is publishing those particular characters because they were among the most popular and well-remembered of that type of character. And in no way is that type of character in danger of dominating DE's lineup of titles in the way that superheroes dominate Marvel and DC's output. In fact, if DE does decide to do more adapations of pulp characters, there aren't that many left that will have a similar look and MO to the ones they already publish. The most likely prospects would be characters like Doc Savage, The Avenger, or Captain Future. They could dig into the lesser-knowns like the Black Bat or the Moon Man, Secret Agent X or G-8 and His Battle Aces, The Whisperer or dozens more that only pulp afficionados have heard of, but it seems unlikely.

For that matter, if it's not something you're interested in, it's pretty easy to just lump it together, isn't it?

I'm not complaining about the similarities. All your points are valid. Spiderman is basically just Batman, etc. As is your last comment...it is easy to lump together if you aren't that interested.

I am saying, how many of these types of books can Dynamite publish? They are a mid-level publisher already with several pulp style books. If they make too many, they will not sell because there is not enough of a market for them. That would be bad business. They choose those books, as you said, because they were the most popular and have some name recognition. As interesting as Secret Agent X may be, it won't sell enough copies to warrant publishing.

I would much rather they put some effort behind Project Superpowers or Kirby Genesis...books that are different from what the Big 2 offer and could find an large audience if they received as much support as Flash Gordon, Spider, etc.

And for the record, I loved The Spider #1 and have enjoyed Green Hornet and others.

[positronic]

I am saying, how many of these types of books can Dynamite publish?

OK, I'll go with the simple answer then. Between 3 and 6. (Then again, it all depends on how you want to define "pulp hero" -- technically, that would include Zorro, The Lone Ranger, Lord of the Jungle, and Warlord of Mars, so it's already over 6; also technically, it wouldn't include Green Hornet, who never appeared in the pulps.) But then, it all depends on sales, doesn't it? If all of a sudden (and The Shadow and The Spider both did sell out of their first printings of issue #1) these titles were to top the list of DE's most popular books, I can pretty much guarantee you're likely to see more pulp heroes on the way.

Point taken about Project Superpowers and Kirby Genesis. I will reiterate however, that I don't think DE is in any danger of homogenizing its variety of genres.

[Renaud]

A little Black Bat History from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bla...irst_Black_Bat

The first Black Bat

He appeared in Black Bat Detective Mysteries, a short-lived pulp which saw six issues, all written by Murray Leinster (a pen-name of William Fitzgerald Jenkins), between 1933 and 1934. He was a man called Black Bat in the way Simon Templar was called the Saint; unlike the Simon Templar books, however, none of the Black Bat stories ever mentioned the character's real name.

The second Black Bat

In July 1939 Ned Pines' Thrilling Publications (also known as Standard or Better) introduced a new Black Bat in a series called Black Book Detective. Written mainly by Norman Daniels under the house name G. Wayman Jones, the stories describe the crime-fighting career of former District Attorney Anthony Quinn. In a clear departure from most pulp characters and heroes, this Black Bat was actually an origin story, describing how Quinn became the Black Bat after being blinded and disfigured by acid, an idea borrowed a few years later by DC Comics for the creation of both Doctor Mid-Nite and Batman villain Two Face when D.A. Harvey Kent is disfigured by having acid thrown in his face (Detective Comics #66 August 1942. His name was later changed to Harvey Dent).

The Black Bat and Batman

Both the Black Bat and Batman hit the newsstands around the same time, and both claimed that the other was a copy. The threat of lawsuits ended when DC editor Whitney Ellsworth intervened. Ellsworth had once worked for the Black Bat's publishers and brokered a deal that allowed both characters to co-exist peacefully. It is probable that the costumes of both characters were copied from the 1933/34 Black Bat series which featured costumed illustrations of the Black Bat inside the pulps though actually the "Black Bat" in the stories was indistinguishable from any other man in his choice of clothing. Batman creator Bob Kane always contended that the only bat-like man he had seen was the villain from the 1930 film, The Bat Whispers. However, the Black Bat did have a permanent influence on the Batman: chief Batman scribe Bill Finger called Kane's attention to the unique gauntlets the rival character wore. Subsequently, similar "fins" were added to Batman's gloves which remain to this day.

How the Black Bat got his abilities

In the first issue, DA Tony Quinn is blinded by acid and believes his career is over until Carol Baldwin arrives. She tells him that her father is a small town policeman who is dying from a gangster's bullet and that a surgeon is willing to perform an operation to graft his corneas onto Tony Quinn's eyes so that he can see again. The operation is done in secret and when the bandages are removed, Quinn finds that he can not only see normally but can even see perfectly in darkness too. While blind, Quinn had developed the necessary skills of the blind; sharper hearing, more sensitive touch, a better sense of smell, etc.

[Renaud]

Any chance of getting old Pulp Black Book Detective Black Bat reprints

Possible Double Pulp style, of some collection

Anyone?

Wouldn’t mind reading some of those earlier Black Bat Detective Mysteries stories

[positronic]

http://www.altuspress.com/projects/t...ibus-volume-1/