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Tarantino, Hudlin & Wagner Team for "Django/Zorro" Crossover

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  • Tarantino, Hudlin & Wagner Team for "Django/Zorro" Crossover

    I really hope Tarantino is the one who finally reminds everyone at Zorro Prod. Sonny & Dynamite that.:
    Zorro carries a Gun/Pistola!

    Like the sword, whip, etc. this is a regular part of his arsenal.
    He's not opposed to them like the guy dressed as a bat, stop retroactively copying that. They are NOT the same character.
    His sword is shown as his preferred weapon and usually will use the gun just to force a duel, but that does not mean he doesn't carry and use a gun.
    Who came up with the "no gun" BS?
    Zorro has the means to use every "modern" weapon of his time, and does!

    Don't know if it's out of some misconception or some new PC editorial mandate, but please do not have a repetition of the BS that was Dynamite's Zorro Lone Ranger, where the guy ridiculously refuses to use a gun, and knowingly gets himself killed.
    You portray Zorro as a complete idiot. Or similarly in "MASKS" where a modern Zorro surrounded with modern weapons forgets he can and has regularly used a pistol.

    It's how some of the greatest and most iconic have portrayed him.

    McCulley the guy who invented Zorro:

    On the first page that introduces him on the scene- “…Zorro had allowed one hand to come from beneath his cloak, and the hand held a pistol, most damnable of weapons…”

    Zorro holding back an army- “I shall hold the pistol in my left hand…I shall engage this sergeant with my right, in the proper manner, and as I fight, I shall keep an eye on the corner. The first move from any of you, señores, means that I fire.”

    “...I am expert with this you have termed the devil’s weapon, and if I fire some men shall cease to exist on this earth of ours. It is understood?”
    That is Zorro, not only does he use "the Devils Weapon", but like with the sword, he indulges in his expertise with it.
    This is how the character was introduced. The first thing we learn about him is he is expert with both the sword and pistol.

    Fairbanks (Zorro's other father) who defined the look of the character, followed the same...
    http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...rbankscopy.jpg
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    As per the ongoing McCulley pulps.
    From McCulley's first story to his last it was part of the regular depiction of the character, he is proficient with them....
    http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...ulleyPulps.jpg
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    And the Dell first Zorro comics, based on ongoing McCulley pulps.
    Throughout he is shown as an expert with them....

    http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...llgundevil.jpg
    http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...askofZorro.jpg
    As good as he is with the sword, he is with the his pistols, on par with Lone Ranger shooting weapons out of hands etc. only Zorro did it first!
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    Dell inside cover, again based on McCulley stories -
    http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...PistolDell.jpg
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    Featured because like his sword his pistols are regular part of his arsenal.

    Then came Tyrone Powers' taking the mantle of Zorro, one of the most popular and iconic interpretations, how could anyone forget that incredible shot! Look at that shadow.
    http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...rGunShadow.jpg
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    How does Dynamite ignore all this awesomeness?
    Last edited by Guicho; 02-05-2015, 08:30 PM.

  • #2
    Then Disney's Guy Catalano Williams, another Zorro icon! Every episode began like this...
    Disney- http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...950sAction.gif
    More Disney Guy Williams - http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...20Williams.gif
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    The Disney Zorro comics by Alex Toth
    http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...thDisney10.jpg
    http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...tolZorro12.jpg
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    Disney Alex Toth Comics - pistol left / musket right, ....nice shot!
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    Disney Topps trading cards http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...iamsPistol.jpg

    And Disney was also the first to mas-market merchandise the character,
    Playset figures - http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...PistolLido.jpg
    Accessories; not just cape, hat & sword, but his pistols too!-
    http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...apshooting.jpg
    http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...ionSetMarx.jpg
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    This carried over to Gabriel who released Zorro in 1982- http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...Adventures.jpg
    And in other countries they are not afraid to still market Zorro in his most classic form -
    http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...pistolmask.jpg

    New World Zorro Duncan Regehr (although afaik not often)- http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...ncanRegehr.jpg

    This character lived on the frontier between the pulpy pirate Swashbuckler & The Western, he was at the perfect meeting-point between the two awesome genres.

    I know in today's PC world people might whine "but it's a darkening of the character". BS, This was Disney! And it's Zorro he's Dark! Devilmaycare, but still dark.

    These - McCulley, Fairbanks, Power, Disney- are some of, if not the most iconic interpretations of the character.

    This isn't just in the past, but a contemporary ongoing portrayal of the character, right before Dynamite Papercutz had the comic licence, written by Don McCregor who if you are familiar knew the character pretty well.-
    http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...arge-11877.jpg
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    Even the Sony/Telemundo Telenovela got it right (although those look like revolvers LOL! Then again he would update to the most modern weapon available. ) -
    Again using them to force a duel and in the last panel actually hold back an army.
    The guy is prepared.
    http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...oPistolero.jpg

    These were properties licensed through Zorro Productions, so they don't seem to have a problem with it, so is it Dynamite?

    From the first Zorro comics to most Iconic interpretations all recognized this aspect of McCulley's character , why can't Dynamite?
    Last edited by Guicho; 02-05-2015, 09:14 PM.

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    • #3
      I don't remember that. Did DE show Zorro refusing to handle a gun (ala Batman), or indicate that in dialogue somewhere?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by pulphero View Post
        I don't remember that. Did DE show Zorro refusing to handle a gun (ala Batman), or indicate that in dialogue somewhere?
        Dynamite insistently portraying him without his gun has cemented that in their U, so much that it culminated in the shared universe spinoff Lone Ranger Zorro, where he ridiculously goes into a situation where he even knows he will be outnumbered by guns, and knowingly shows up with just a sword to get himself killed LOL!
        They just made up that stance so they could kill him that way, to make their point, about a stance the character never had.

        Further the Legacy Zorro character in MASKS, who for no reason picks up the Dynamites ridiculous no gun stance. When everyone around him has guns, modern guns, hero and villain alike, and he again as per Dynamite contrary to character goes with just a sword.

        I get the sword is his iconic weapon, not to kill but mark them for life, that is Zorro, and I see why a legacy character would maintain that, and use a sword even in a world that had fully transitioned to guns. The final coup de grâce to any villain worth his respect would be with a sword.
        That would be an awesome way to portray him!
        But that doesn't, and has never meant he uses only a sword and refuses to carry a gun.

        MASKS and now Django's more modern setting only emphasize how ridiculous and counter intuitive to the character Dynamite's sword only Zorro is.

        The character lived precisely in that transition of one to the other, he'd be familiar, and implicitly carried both. Knew when and where to use each, the modern and archaic.


        I'm afraid that again in a more contemporary setting of Django , once again Dynamite will portray the otherwise versatile Zorro as a sword only character, and in a world of six shooters will just be ridiculous.

        McCulley himself co wrote a more contemporary looking Zorro in a world closer to Django in the classic Republic cliffhanger serials. The ones that so famously influenced Lucas and Spielberg.
        In it again he was not only proficient with the sword, the whip (which influenced Indiana Jones) but also his guns. This portrayal would be more analogues with the world of Django's time.
        Click image for larger version

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        Why not follow the awesome groundwork laid out by McCulley himself, and the incredible Republic serials.

        Are they just not fans of the character? Are they ignorant of how he was portrayed? What is it?

        I'm not saying Dynamite's portrayal is completely unfaithful, like so many Dynamite's is just another version of Zorro, and for the most part one of the best!
        I'm hoping that with Tarantino's influence we might finally get a Zorro that more acknowledges other great portrayals like- McCulley, Fairbanks, Power, Disney's Guy Williams, Alex Toth or some of the great Republic serials.
        These are some of, if not the most iconic, and they all carried pistols.

        Rant aside, if nothing else I'v collect in one place the evidence for this aspect of Zorro that if Dynamite might yet explore, if not maybe someone else will.
        Last edited by Guicho; 02-04-2015, 10:04 AM.

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        • #5
          I don't even think the legacy Zorros factor into the equation. They're different people, in different times, with different moral codes and motivations.

          Sticking to the Johnston McCulley version, AKA Don Diego (de la) Vega, just because DE hasn't portrayed Zorro using guns, doesn't mean there's some series bible somewhere that dictates it as verboten. Remember that Matt Wagner has written most of DE's Zorro saga. For whatever reason, he felt more comfortable writing stories where Zorro isn't using a gun, but that may reflect just a small portion of Zorro's career. It's more difficult to explain it in Lone Ranger/Zorro, but you can easily discount that as a "What If?/Imaginary Tale/Elseworld" if you so choose. The time frame seems all wrong anyway, so it's likely a non-canonical story.

          No reason another writer besides Matt Wagner couldn't jump in there and write a Zorro series where he uses pistolas. I don't see that as having to occur in some other universe or something. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing Chuck Dixon get a shot at writing Zorro for DE.
          Last edited by pulphero; 06-20-2014, 03:37 AM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by pulphero View Post

            No reason another writer besides Matt Wagner couldn't jump in there and write a Zorro series where he uses pistolas. I don't see that as having to occur in some other universe or something.
            I agree, and I'm hoping/anticipating it's this take maybe with Tarantino's influence, that finally inspires that!
            Last edited by Guicho; 06-20-2014, 03:59 AM.

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            • #7
              Now that I think of it, haven't you brought this up before? It occurs to me that for a while there Zorro Productions was doing kid-friendly cartoon versions of Zorro, so this might be ZP's mandate, trying to keep the character from having two markedly-different interpretations. God knows some of the stuff that appeared in movies and television back in the 20th Century as acceptable to General Audiences won't fly today.

              The earliest Batman stories showed him using guns, but that ended rather quickly with the introduction of Robin, and the editorial mandate by Whitney Ellsworth that Batman never use a gun. Because even in 1940, there was a growing perception of adults taking a critical view of comic books, and that they should be kept appropriate for young children. Now, today's Batman comic books (from DC's regular universe) obviously aren't aimed at an audience of young kids, but they're never going back to Batman using guns, not just because of the many decades of establishing it as a story point, but because they will always want to have a version of Batman that's marketable to kids, and they don't want to have another "mainstream" version of Batman out there that contradicts that characterization. Admittedly, the situation with Zorro is more of a wholesale re-writing of history (ala Orwell's 1984), but Zorro Productions may feel it's very important to the marketability of the character to be consistent from medium to medium, regardless of the fact that DE's comics aren't aimed at an audience of young kids. Now, it's hard to have a "Western" character that doesn't use guns, and George Trendle was adamant on the point that the Lone Ranger be kept as an iconic ideal for kids to look up to, so he mandated that the Ranger never shoots to kill, but is so unrealistically accurate as a marksman that he can shoot to disarm every single time. It might be felt that having Zorro use pistols to do the same is a bit too much, especially given that the character is from a somewhat earlier time frame where the sword was much more common (and less often 100% lethal). Since Zorro has non-lethal weapons like the sword, whip and bolas to fall back on, it might seem a little more realistic to avoid the whole "shoot the weapons out of their hands, or only to graze or wound".

              Now, regardless of what Zorro's creator intended, Zorro the character has become merchandise in our present-day culture, and translations of the character into other media may not be serving the best interests of Zorro Productions by sticking faithfully to what McCulley wrote. The same situation applies to ERB Inc. and Tarzan, where modern reprints of the novels have deleted for reasons of PC, some of the more racially-insensitive bits as originally written. On the other hand, Django (which I have not seen, but knowing it is Tarantino, I would assume it's something along the lines of an R-rated blaxploitation spaghetti western, with all of the adult language and violence that implies) and Zorro would seem like a strange crossover, so if Zorro Productions is allowing that in the first place, then maybe they don't feel the need to keep Zorro as a family-friendly character after all.
              Last edited by pulphero; 06-20-2014, 07:40 AM.

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              • #8
                I couldn't possibly care less about Zorro using a pistol or not.

                Annnnd I think you might care a bit TOO much.

                Like, I get it...in the original story etc. etc. but...woah, man. Relax.

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                • #9
                  http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=54410
                  More on the Zorro/Django crossover.

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                  • #10
                    I've been waiting to pick up Django Zorro as a trade, but going by all the covers, it looks like they've gone with their sword only stance?
                    Despite all the classic evidence to the contrary.
                    Anyone already reading it, know if they have him take Batman's no gun stance?
                    Last edited by Guicho; 02-05-2015, 01:47 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by pulphero View Post
                      It occurs to me that for a while there Zorro Productions was doing kid-friendly cartoon versions of Zorro, so this might be ZP's mandate, trying to keep the character from having two markedly-different interpretations.
                      They licensed to WB who did an awesome cartoon version, but no ZP's last licence before Dynamite was with Papercutz, and it appears they had no such mandate in place.
                      Written by Don McCregor .- http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...arge-11877.jpg
                      And supposed "kid-friendly" can and has included an awesome swashbuckler black-powder pistol wielding Zorro, to holstered 6 shooter revolvers, it's been done right, there is no conflict there.

                      Originally posted by pulphero View Post
                      Now, regardless of what Zorro's creator intended,
                      Yes, just ignore "what Zorro's creator intended"
                      And even if you did, I pointed out it's not just McCulley, that you/they are ignoring, it's:
                      Fairbanks
                      Tyrone Power
                      Disney -Guy Williams
                      Alex Toth and others as well as McCulley.
                      These are some of the most popular incarnations, this does not seem like a stance ZP took, but one Dynamite is making.

                      Originally posted by pulphero View Post
                      Zorro the character has become merchandise in our present-day culture, and translations of the character into other media may not be serving the best interests of Zorro Productions by sticking faithfully to what McCulley wrote.
                      Merchandising Zorro isn't something new, and Zorro Production (ZP) has had no problem referencing McCulley in that regard, there is two posts of evidence showing it.
                      Where is your evidence ZP have suddenly distanced themselves from it?

                      Originally posted by pulphero View Post
                      On the other hand, Django (which I have not seen, but knowing it is Tarantino, I would assume it's something along the lines of an R-rated blaxploitation spaghetti western, with all of the adult language and violence that implies) and Zorro would seem like a strange crossover, so if Zorro Productions is allowing that in the first place, then maybe they don't feel the need to keep Zorro as a family-friendly character after all.
                      After all?
                      That was your theory that ZP were doing that, and your take on "family-friendly", neither held any water to begin with.

                      Again this Zorro doesn't use a gun seems like a point Dynamite is making, not Zorro Productions.
                      I do wonder if it's for some misplaced PC reasons, or worse just out of ignorance of the character, which would be sad.

                      He looks pretty badass brandishing his pistol, and if he wants he knows how to use it non-lethally, he was doing it before the Lone Ranger, the Shadow or the Phantom etc... weather it's a black powder pistol, or a more contemporary revolver, and it's always been true to the character.

                      Common Dynamite, I though if anyone could stop perpetuating the Zorro doesn't use a gun myth it would be you guys.

                      EDIT:
                      Django Zorro #6
                      Hmm, have they finally come around and realized Zorro can use a gun? - http://www.dynamite.com/images/Djang...SUbMoritat.jpg


                      .
                      Last edited by Guicho; 02-06-2015, 08:54 AM.

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                      • #12
                        Why can't he just carry a gun sometimes, and sometimes not?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ChastMastr View Post
                          Why can't he just carry a gun sometimes, and sometimes not?
                          That would be great, if they actually once in a while showed that, but Dynanmite won't, up till now (see Edit ^ above). Dynamite was making it so he never uses a gun.
                          Which was never the case, and freakin ridiculous. They just poorly seem to want to retrofit Batman's modern stance back onto Zorro.
                          Going as far as suggesting he refuses to use a gun and walks into a gun fight, and knowingly gets himself killed, because of their stance.
                          So not only did they have the character take a stance he never had, but then they have him intentionally suck at it.
                          So why give it to him in the first place?

                          Thankfully they've apparently come around. See Edit above^
                          Rant officially over

                          Edit:
                          Unless that's Django dressed as Zorro? And they are just using it to make a point to reinforce their stance further.
                          It's going to take Django to inform their version of Zorro he can brandish both pistol and sword?
                          Really? This is the backwards way Dynamite, Tarantino, Hudlin and Wagner want to homage Zorro, the pulp fiction badass character which informed their creations?

                          Click image for larger version

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                          I can't tell if it's some modern PC ethos they want to retrofit onto the character, which doesn't even fit their brand. Or just a misconception?
                          Don't know which would be sadder.
                          Why would Dynamite, who has made a name steeped in revitalizing the gritty pulps, be perpetuating that about Zorro?





                          First Zorro figure....
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                          Last edited by Guicho; 03-01-2015, 11:13 AM.

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                          • #14
                            So issue #7 and the finale have been released.
                            Any reviews?
                            Thoughts?
                            Spoilers are fine, how did it end?

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Guicho View Post
                              Spoilers are fine, how did it end?
                              Maybe they're not fine for everyone else reading this thread; perhaps they would be best shared via PM rather than posted here, unless more time goes by.

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