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  • #31
    Originally posted by pulphero View Post
    Weisinger knew Lester Dent, and frequently "borrowed" ideas... er, "paid homage" to his ideas, like giving Superman a Fortress of Solitude just like Lester Dent had given Doc Savage a Fortress of Solitude.
    It would be awesome if there could ever be an actual team-up between Superman/Doc Savage, Batman/Shadow (which I believe happened just once back in the 1970s), and... hmmm, not sure we have much of an antecedent for Wonder Woman in the pulps, though technically Doc's focus on reforming criminals comes closest. (Silver Age) Green Lantern/Lensman...

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    • #32
      Originally posted by ChastMastr View Post
      It would be awesome if there could ever be an actual team-up between Superman/Doc Savage, Batman/Shadow (which I believe happened just once back in the 1970s), and... hmmm, not sure we have much of an antecedent for Wonder Woman in the pulps, though technically Doc's focus on reforming criminals comes closest. (Silver Age) Green Lantern/Lensman...
      There were actually 2 encounters between Batman and The Shadow, one in BATMAN #253 (Nov. 1973) "Who Knows What Evil...?", and another in BATMAN #259 (Dec. 1974) "Night of The Shadow!". In the latter story, prior to any in-story references to The Mark of Zorro or The Animated Series' later Gray Ghost homage to Adam West, Bruce Wayne credits The Shadow as his major inspiration for a crimefighting identity. There was also (set in the alternate First Wave Universe) the BATMAN/DOC SAVAGE SPECIAL (Dec. 2010). No Doc Savage/Superman crossovers, though. One might say that Philip Wylie's hero Hugo Danner in the novel Gladiator was a closer antecedent to Superman, as well as John W. Campbell's pulp novel The Mightiest Machine, which featured hero Aarn Munro, a scientist raised on Jupiter who possesses superstrength on Earth (who also got his own comic feature in Street & Smith's Shadow Comics, under the name Iron Munro). And though Wylie wasn't published in the pulps, his works served as seeds of inspiration for a lot of things. One can find in his novel The Savage Gentleman certain aspects of inspiration for Doc Savage, while his collaboration with Edwin Balmer, When Worlds Collide provides sort of a reversal of POV of the destruction of the planet Krypton, and also provided about 50% of the inspiration (along with ERB's John Carter of Mars) for King Features' Flash Gordon. A competing newspaper syndicate obviously recognized this after the success of Flash Gordon, and attempted to market an adaptation of the Wylie & Balmer novel under the title Speed Spaulding.

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      Wonder Woman's antecedent in in the pulps would be The Golden Amazon by John Russell Fearn. There were two versions of the character, the first appearing in FANTASTIC ADVENTURES in 1939 (and eventually appearing in a total of four novelettes) under Fearn's pseudonym of Thornton Ayre (Fearn had a whole host of pseudonyms, including Polton Cross, Astron Del Martia, Vargo Statten, and Volsted Gridban, among others). That version of the character was written to market specifications for Ziff-Davis editor Ray Palmer, and was set in the future. The child survivor of a rocketship crash, she grows up in the steamy jungles of Venus, testing herself daily against all manner of fierce beasts, and the greater radiation on Venus' surface causes her muscles to harden to superhuman toughness and density while her skin gains a permanent golden tan. She is educated by thought-machines left intact from the wreckage of her rocketship, and finally rescued years later, returning to Earth to oppose criminals in America. Later Fearn returned to the concept (with a completely rebooted origin story) in the 1944 hardcover novel The Golden Amazon under his own name, that would eventually spawn 26 sequels. The later version was firmly set in the 1940s, with the Golden Amazon (a.k.a. Violet Ray Brant) a product of a genetic experiment, not unlike the earlier Hugo Danner of Philip Wylie's novel Gladiator.

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      Last edited by pulphero; 06-25-2015, 04:50 AM.

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      • #33
        Oh wow! More things for me to track down...

        I wonder if the Golden Amazon is out of copyright and if Dynamite could do something with her? Ideally in the same Doc Savage/Shadow world.

        I also wonder... her name was Violet Ray Brant... which came first, her name or the Amazons' Purple Healing Ray?

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        • #34
          Just finished the Doc V. Shadow novel. Not bad. They are at odd most of the book, but (not surprisingly) teamed up toward the end.
          Always remember, Murphy was an optimist
          Munchkin 1, 2, 4, 7 Super Munchkin 1&2, Munchkin Bites 1&2, Munchkin Fu, Star Munchkin Deluxe and Star 2
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          • #35
            G'day

            Still think Doc Savage should team up with Jill Trent Science Sleuth. She would be his match.



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            Also I'm reading Tarpe Mills Miss Fury Sensational Sundays 1941-1944 . How about a more pulpish Miss Fury rather then that time travelling version which left me cold. My expanded version of Justice Inc would be Doc Savage, the Shadow, The Avenger, Jill Trent and Miss Fury. That team should be able to handle just about anything.
            Last edited by ralphuniverse; 08-05-2015, 07:44 AM.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by ChastMastr View Post
              Oh wow! More things for me to track down...

              I wonder if the Golden Amazon is out of copyright and if Dynamite could do something with her? Ideally in the same Doc Savage/Shadow world.

              I also wonder... her name was Violet Ray Brant... which came first, her name or the Amazons' Purple Healing Ray?
              The original Golden Amazon story (as by "Thornton Ayre") was published in the second issue of FANTASTIC ADVENTURES, cover-dated July 1939 (Wonder Woman's 1st appearance in ALL-STAR COMICS #8 was cover-dated Dec. 1941). The name Violet Ray was attached to both versions of the character. Julius Schwartz acted as Fearn's American agent is brokering the sale of the stories to FANTASTIC ADVENTURES editor Raymond Palmer.

              Some of the later novels may still be under copyright (sequels continued right up until the early 1960s, serialized in The Toronto Star Weekly), but FANTASTIC ADVENTURES publisher, Ziff-Davis (which now publishes mainly computer magazines) did not renew copyrights to the magazines (although it's possible some authors did so). Apparently, the Golden Amazon stories from FANTASTIC are public domain, since Moonstone Books has used the character in a few stories. It's unclear which version of the character they're using (did not see the origin story referenced anywhere), although their character is set in the 1940s rather than the future.

              Informative background history on the pulp magazine version of the Golden Amazon can be found here:
              http://www.batteredbox.com/JohnRFear...ldenAmazon.htm
              Last edited by pulphero; 08-06-2015, 01:34 AM.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Ghornet2 View Post
                Just finished the Doc V. Shadow novel. Not bad. They are at odd most of the book, but (not surprisingly) teamed up toward the end.
                Almost like a Silver Age Marvel story!

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                • #38
                  Doc Savage and the Sinister Shadow...

                  Originally posted by pulphero View Post
                  I enjoyed it. It makes a great companion book to Philip Jose Farmer's Doc Savage: His Apocalyptic Life (ALSO back in print, in a collaborative effort between Altus Press and Meteor House), Rick Lai's Chronology of Bronze, and Larry Wilden's Doc Savage: Arch Enemy of Evil.
                  Which of these books on Doc would you suggest we read first, pulp hero??

                  I picked up and am reading The Sinister Shadow .... and enjoying it immensely. I'm slow reading it for enjoyment but the meeting between Doc and The Shadow was just too good pass up. Murray does a pretty good job of telling the story with Doc's cast... and The Shadow's cast. It's really fun to read... and I just have a few small quibbles with the story .... and I wished Doc looked a little better on the cover.
                  Also, wished they would have included interior art to add to the story-telling. It was a part of the pulps I always enjoyed.

                  Did Doc Savage and The Shadow meet once before in "The Shadow Gambit" ??:
                  http://imgur.com/syIgKxP
                  and did Doc meet The Avenger....

                  Guess the question is Wayne Keil.
                  Last edited by Magno; 11-06-2015, 02:01 PM.

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                  • #39
                    Most of Murray's books are based on Dent plots, unfinished books etc. In a way I like them more because he isn't under the time, page count and content restrictions that Dent was.
                    Always remember, Murphy was an optimist
                    Munchkin 1, 2, 4, 7 Super Munchkin 1&2, Munchkin Bites 1&2, Munchkin Fu, Star Munchkin Deluxe and Star 2
                    http://ghornet.deviantart.com/

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                    • #40
                      Doc Savage and the Sinister Shadow...

                      Originally posted by Ghornet2 View Post
                      Most of Murray's books are based on Dent plots, unfinished books etc. In a way I like them more because he isn't under the time, page count and content restrictions that Dent was.
                      Well, I certainly have enjoyed this one.
                      Do you have any favorites of this series, Ghornet??

                      And what about those stories like "THE SHADOW GAMBIT" ??
                      where Doc meets The Shadow...
                      ... and "THE AVENGER" ??
                      Where Doc meets The Avenger??
                      Last edited by Magno; 11-08-2015, 03:02 PM.

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