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Zorro comics MEGATHREAD!

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  • VERY cool, LetsRollKato.

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    • Thank you, sir (or ma'am, whichever the case may be).

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      • One of the problems with Zorro is that even if you leave out all the various sons and descendants, you still can't reconcile the discrepancies between the various versions of just the original Zorro. You've got Johnston McCulley's Zorro, Douglas Fairbanks' Mark of Zorro, Republic's Zorro's Fighting Legion, Tyrone Power's Mark of Zorro, and Guy Williams' Zorro TV series (and these are just what I consider the major ones), all interpretations of Don Diego (de la) Vega that disagree on many of the finer points of the legend. And of course Isabel Allende's and Matt Wagner's Zorro. While there are obviously many points on which all versions agree, there are just as many points where they vary. Since you can't reconcile them, you wind up with a crisis of infinite Zorros.

        Even Johnston McCulley ignored his original ending to The Curse of Capistrano, where Diego's identity was revealed, when he wrote sequels. So effective with the original Fairbanks movie and the first McCulley sequel, there are already alternate universe versions of Zorro. Very likely most, if not all, of the various heirs to the Zorro legacy inhabit different alternate timelines.
        Last edited by positronic; 02-22-2013, 06:45 PM.
        DE pull list: Will Eisner's The Spirit: The Corpse Makers, ERB's The Greatest Adventure, Green Hornet '66 Meets The Spirit, PSP: Herokillers, KISS/Vampirella, Mighty Mouse

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        • Originally posted by Tulku View Post
          You are right that Zorro did carry guns in a number of incarnations, including McCulley's conception. But Zorro has always changed certain details over time. If you have ever read any of McCulley's later Zorro stories you know that he himself altered aspects of the character as he went along. The most famous example is that he started to have Diego do sleight of hand magic in response to Douglas Fairbanks' portrayal. And he originally just called him Diego Vega--the use of the name Diego de la Vega was a later version. Duncan Regehr's version was much more interested in science than his predecessors had been. Each generation makes its own Zorro.
          True, there's many interpretations, I'm emphasizing many of the popular ones that did have him carry a gun as a standard part of his arsenal, one he is "expert" in.
          If it's an informed choice to depict him without one I just disagree with the choice, no big deal, if not, i'm just trying to draw attentions to it, and how the pistols have been popularly portrayed with the character.

          All of which leads me to the DE version, which also added and changed details of the character. The Zorro: Year One run that DE did (I don't think it was actually called that, but that is what it essentially was) went into his training with a secret society in Spain dedicated to operating in the shadows to secure justice--and it had all sorts of interesting rules concerning honor.
          So, bottom line, this Zorro does not use guns because he does not deem it honorable. Or, at least, that's how I have been viewing it.
          It's McCulley who in fact introduced the scene that established that aspect of honor with the sword over the gun(what he deemed "the devils weapon"), and had him be an expert with both. If anything that aspect - having both and forcing the sword when possible, emphasised the point.
          There's no reason he can't appropriately use pistols to protect himself and others when necessary, and also use them to force a perceived more honorable sword dual. (again these are one shot black powder pistols, the default weapon will inevitably be a sword anyway)
          What Allende brought to it and Wagner adapted I thought was a great addition to the character's back story, the training and honor learned through La Justicia, none of which conflicts with him carrying pistolas as per McCulley.

          I don't think you will find this satisfying, but I will try because you are obviously a Zorro fan and that makes you my friend:
          That's cool.

          Originally posted by positronic View Post
          Two words: "Walt Disney". For better or worse.

          Why, I'm not exactly sure, since Davy Crockett, the Scarecrow of Romney Marsh, and other Disney series heroes used guns. Maybe to blunt any inevitable comparisons to the Lone Ranger, who got to TV first?
          No like their Davy Crockett, Scarecrow of Romney Marsh, and other Disney heroes, Disney had no problem with Zorro using a gun too, in at least one episode he even brings a guy down with a musket/rifle.
          Guy Williams, Disney Zorro


          Heck they even marketed them to kids...


          How beautiful is that toy pistol! That's exactly what he would carry.

          It's just contemporary writers have brainfarted the idea that he would carry gun/pistolas away.

          I think they've ignorantly somehow "reverse-engineered" if you will, a post pulp era gun-free Batman backwards onto Zorro, and ignored the actual character Zorro.

          Originally posted by BatHobbit View Post
          I think Zorro should not carry a gun because he has to be seen as a symbol, a legend, something more than a man. If he shot the bad guys, even in a non lethal manner, it would detract from that.
          ....He gives the poor and oppressed something to look up to and I am not sure that just another gunslinger could do that.
          Do you see ensuing characters like The Lone Ranger or The Phantom who carry guns and masterfully like Zorro can and would use them "non-lethally" to disarm, as characters who can't be looked up to or characters who are less than men?

          Originally posted by torqueflite View Post
          I think there is room for many different takes on a character. If I were writing the stories, Zorro would have a pistol in his waistband and probably another on his saddle.
          Agreed, there's plenty of legit ways to interpret him, I'm just trying to draw more attention to the popular ones where he did carry his pistols, and there a many, I think it's a legit way to portray him. Like you, that's how I picture him.
          Last edited by Guicho; 03-01-2013, 07:28 AM.

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          • Like it or not, Zorro will now probably be forever associated with his skill in swordmanship. He leaves the "sign of the Z". That is The Mark of Zorro.

            Earlier incarnations of Zorro made good use of the bullwhip, another weapon in Zorro's arsenal seen rather infrequently these days, along with the pistolas. It's probably more realistic that he would use all three, according to the needs of the situation, but nothing comes close to the imagery of those three horizontal-diagonal-horizontal cuts, leaving his initial.
            DE pull list: Will Eisner's The Spirit: The Corpse Makers, ERB's The Greatest Adventure, Green Hornet '66 Meets The Spirit, PSP: Herokillers, KISS/Vampirella, Mighty Mouse

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            • Originally posted by positronic View Post
              but nothing comes close to the imagery of those three horizontal-diagonal-horizontal cuts, leaving his initial.
              I don't think anyone would deny that, and certainly hasn't here.


              Originally posted by positronic View Post
              Like it or not, Zorro will now probably be forever associated with his skill in swordmanship. He leaves the "sign of the Z". That is The Mark of Zorro.
              Now?
              Sorry, but that's not something new or just happened "now". That was the defining characteristic from the get go, from the first story and first movie onward. McCulley pretty much opens and closes with it. LOL
              And where did I or anyone ever say or even suggest they did not like that aspect?
              Are you just inventing things to argue about . LOL

              Originally posted by positronic View Post
              Earlier incarnations of Zorro made good use of the bullwhip, another weapon in Zorro's arsenal seen rather infrequently these days, along with the pistolas. It's probably more realistic that he would use all three, according to the needs of the situation,
              Agreed! Unless they weren't aware, I'm not very sympathetic of Dynamite perpetuating the myth that he wouldn't have his pistola. It's definitely been a recognizable, logical and oft used popular portrayal of the character.

              If anything, I had hoped that Dynamie would be the ones to help shoot down that lame no-gun myth.
              Last edited by Guicho; 03-01-2013, 09:12 AM.

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              • Well, maybe I wasn't being clear enough. What I meant is that over time, the thing that most people have found most memorable about Zorro is his swordmanship and especially his signature 'Z'. And since it is a much better visual for film and comic books, that has tended to be focused on more and more over time, while the other aspects have withered and tended to fall away a little bit, particularly since guns have been considered politically (if not historically) incorrect for a G-rated character since the 1970s. In prose, all of these things tend to carry equal value in terms of descriptive scenes, but some things just make for more memorable visuals. I think it's also assumed that the sword thing doesn't lend itself as much to what child psychologists (and media censors) refer to as "imitable acts". I know it doesn't make much sense, that generations of kids were raised on movies, serials, and TV series where the hero carried a gun and at that time it was considered OK. Just like once a upon a time, cartoons were filled with "funny" violence, and somehow all of us who grew up on them didn't turn into mass murderers. But I think Zorro is now categorized as a "kids character", and is scrutinized under a microscope as a role model for children. Go figure.
                DE pull list: Will Eisner's The Spirit: The Corpse Makers, ERB's The Greatest Adventure, Green Hornet '66 Meets The Spirit, PSP: Herokillers, KISS/Vampirella, Mighty Mouse

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                • Originally posted by positronic View Post
                  Well, maybe I wasn't being clear enough. What I meant is that over time, the thing that most people have found most memorable about Zorro is his swordmanship and especially his signature 'Z'. And since it is a much better visual for film and comic books, that has tended to be focused on more and more over time,
                  Over time? Tended to be focused on?
                  Again, the sword was always the focus from the get go, that hasn't changed over time, why would it.
                  And no one is suggesting that should change.
                  He is also known to carry a pistol though, this isn't some foreign element that would be added to the character, it's already there, a standard part of his arsenal.
                  Whatever the 70's had to say about it. This is now the heavy pulp-steeped Dynamite in 2013 we're talking about.

                  Originally posted by positronic View Post
                  I think Zorro is now categorized as a "kids character", and is scrutinized under a microscope as a role model for children. Go figure.
                  Yeah, cause the little children, that's why Dynamite's Zorro doesn't have pistols. [lol]
                  I hope you're not serious.
                  Last edited by Guicho; 03-02-2013, 09:29 PM.

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                  • I don't know...I find it far more interesting to see the character get out of scrapes with just a sword.

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                    • Originally posted by LetsRollKato View Post
                      I don't know...I find it far more interesting to see the character get out of scrapes with just a sword.
                      Well by Dynamite's own telling, the Zorro they're perpetuating is done-in by a gun, cause he supposedly wouldn't adapt to using one, or I don't know didn't know they existed?.
                      So big fail on their Zorro "getting out of scrapes with just a sword" scenario.
                      Last edited by Guicho; 03-02-2013, 10:07 PM.

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                      • You're awfully fired up about this.

                        Is this a thinly-veiled attempt to get into a gun control debate?

                        Because it won't work.

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                        • Originally posted by LetsRollKato View Post
                          You're awfully fired up about this.

                          Is this a thinly-veiled attempt to get into a gun control debate?

                          Because it won't work.

                          Eww no that might be you trying to twist the discussion or argue for the sake of it.
                          Yeah it's the 70's , or Disney said so, or it's not PC now, go ahead argue it, I showed another awesome side . .
                          Last edited by Guicho; 03-03-2013, 10:41 AM.

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                          • Originally posted by Guicho View Post
                            This is now the heavy pulp-steeped Dynamite in 2013 we're talking about. Yeah, cause the little children, that's why Dynamite's Zorro doesn't have pistols. [lol]
                            I hope you're not serious.
                            Why do you assume that Dynamite has complete freedom to do whatever they want to with the character? Don't forget the license owner has something to say about this. And don't say that because it was used in Zorro stories in the past, that means it's canon and fair game for current usage. I know for a fact that ERB Inc., for example, has edited original Tarzan stories for the sake of political correctness, and there are some 1930s Disney cartoons that they won't release for public consumption (hell, they won't even release The Song of the South). So don't assume that the reason Zorro doesn't carry a gun isn't because Zorro Productions Inc. prefers it that way.

                            Not saying it's true, I don't know one way or the other, but it's entirely possible. There's currently a Zorro CGI animated series in production, and I highly doubt he'll be carrying a gun in that. So yeah, the little children.
                            DE pull list: Will Eisner's The Spirit: The Corpse Makers, ERB's The Greatest Adventure, Green Hornet '66 Meets The Spirit, PSP: Herokillers, KISS/Vampirella, Mighty Mouse

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                            • In fact, now that I look into this a little bit, it seems more and more plausible. Let's look at the list:

                              • The New Adventures of Zorro - Filmation, 1981, 13 episodes
                              • The Legend of Zorro - Mondo TV (Italy)/Toho Animation, 1992, 52 episodes
                              • Zorro: The Animated Series - Warner Bros./Fred Wolf/Harvest Entertainment, 1997, 26 episodes
                              • The Amazing Zorro - Nickelodeon/DIC Entertainment, 2002, (animated telefilm, 72 min.)
                              • Zorro: Generation Z - BKN Entertainment, 2008, 26 episodes


                              So it would appear that the little children are buttering quite a lot of bread for Zorro Productions Inc. That the consumers of DE's comic book are not primarily children may make no difference here, since public perception is everything, and Zorro Productions may want to maintain a certain consistency in the character's depiction.
                              DE pull list: Will Eisner's The Spirit: The Corpse Makers, ERB's The Greatest Adventure, Green Hornet '66 Meets The Spirit, PSP: Herokillers, KISS/Vampirella, Mighty Mouse

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                              • Originally posted by Guicho View Post
                                Eww no that might be you trying to twist the discussion or argue for the sake of it.
                                Yeah it's the 70's , or Disney said so, or it's not PC now, go ahead argue it, I showed another awesome side . .
                                I was teasing (hence the winky smiley thingy).

                                Or, perhaps, half-teasing.

                                And, since positronic mentioned them:

                                MAN, I wish ANY of those ZORRO animated series had been better. The Filmation one is the best out of all of them.

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