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  • #46
    The panel showed Daredevil throwing a stick of dynamite "in" the Claw's mouth, not "at" the Claw! I guess I can't get this panel out of my mind! Maybe you're right, this was the 1940s, and they did a lot of silly stuff, I should see how today's writer/artist handle the Claw. At any rate, D.D. is my favorite Dynamite character and I think the Green Lama will be second on my list.

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    • #47
      From the past ...to today...and to tomorrow!!

      Originally posted by Glens46golden
      The panel showed Daredevil throwing a stick of dynamite "in" the Claw's mouth, not "at" the Claw! I guess I can't get this panel out of my mind! Maybe you're right, this was the 1940s, and they did a lot of silly stuff, I should see how today's writer/artist handle the Claw. At any rate, D.D. is my favorite Dynamite character and I think the Green Lama will be second on my list.
      "in"...."at"... hey, the "throw" is not that far apart to disagree about... when you're talking "suspension of disbelief"....
      Glad you can see that some of the 1940's stuff was just a little "silly"...AND it won't hurt your appreciation of the stories of today.

      They(the creators of the 1940's) just weren't taking our comics quite as "seriously" as we take them today.

      Heck, I remember editors at DC... in the 1960's... trying to "blow-off" fans complaining about certain aspects of some comicbook story ...
      with the editors saying, "Hey, it's just a comicbook!!" ....(like, hey, kid, it's just a funny book... we don't see your complaint. Don't take these "funnybooks" so seriously. We can turn out any trashy story... it doesn't really matter.)

      [While some of us were seeing these books as a kind of serious art form that should have a certain "reality"...to them. That we weren't just pin-headed kids... but real fans of this ART FORM of Graphic story-telling.!! That we saw these "comicbooks" as MORE!!]

      So,... we have come a long ways. And we've barely begun.
      Last edited by captainzero; 12-20-2008, 04:37 PM.

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      • #48
        This is a neat thread.

        Really, I think they would all stick together, at least at first. They have nothing else! They can all gather to rebuild Lama's home and get things sorted out.

        The writers could treat that like they do with large teams like the JSA or the Legion. You have the entire cast at your disposal but feature just a few at a time based on the story you want to tell.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by captainzero
          "in"...."at"... hey, the "throw" is not that far apart to disagree about... when you're talking "suspension of disbelief"....
          Glad you can see that some of the 1940's stuff was just a little "silly"...AND it won't hurt your appreciation of the stories of today.

          They(the creators of the 1940's) just weren't taking our comics quite as "seriously" as we take them today.

          Heck, I remember editors at DC... in the 1960's... trying to "blow-off" fans complaining about certain aspects of some comicbook story ...
          with the editors saying, "Hey, it's just a comicbook!!" ....(like, hey, kid, it's just a funny book... we don't see your complaint. Don't take these "funnybooks" so seriously. We can turn out any trashy story... it doesn't really matter.)

          [While some of us were seeing these books as a kind of serious art form that should have a certain "reality"...to them. That we weren't just pin-headed kids... but real fans of this ART FORM of Graphic story-telling.!! That we saw these "comicbooks" as MORE!!]

          So,... we have come a long ways. And we've barely begun.
          Some of the cavalier dismissal of comics as a legitimate art form might be tied to print runs. In the 40s, even in the 60s, the print runs dwarf what they are today. Even a low-printed book could see half a million copies go out. Today, with the highest print runs garnering 150,000, the publishers have to be a little more responsive to the consumer. The flipside of that - numbers of titles. The diversity of titles today outstrips either the 40s or the 60s.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Chiclo
            Some of the cavalier dismissal of comics as a legitimate art form might be tied to print runs. In the 40s, even in the 60s, the print runs dwarf what they are today. Even a low-printed book could see half a million copies go out. Today, with the highest print runs garnering 150,000, the publishers have to be a little more responsive to the consumer. The flipside of that - numbers of titles. The diversity of titles today outstrips either the 40s or the 60s.
            It's sad, isn't it?? I remember when I was a teen and reading Wizard magazine in the early 90's I'd see stuff like X-Men and Spider-Man or whatever would sell like 600,000 every month, now Spider-Man sells like 100,000 and is considered a hit, if it sold that much 18 years ago it would be considered a massive failure and probably cancelled, LOL.
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            • #51
              Originally posted by comixfan1980
              It's sad, isn't it?? I remember when I was a teen and reading Wizard magazine in the early 90's I'd see stuff like X-Men and Spider-Man or whatever would sell like 600,000 every month, now Spider-Man sells like 100,000 and is considered a hit, if it sold that much 18 years ago it would be considered a massive failure and probably cancelled, LOL.
              It's funny how perceptions change. I think part of the reason for the lower sales is the number and variety of books out there. It would be interesting to see a study of how many publishers/tiles/sales from now going back for each decade.
              Always remember, Murphy was an optimist
              Munchkin 1, 2, 4, 7 Super Munchkin 1&2, Munchkin Bites 1&2, Munchkin Fu, Star Munchkin Deluxe and Star 2
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              • #52
                Originally posted by comixfan1980
                It's sad, isn't it?? I remember when I was a teen and reading Wizard magazine in the early 90's I'd see stuff like X-Men and Spider-Man or whatever would sell like 600,000 every month, now Spider-Man sells like 100,000 and is considered a hit, if it sold that much 18 years ago it would be considered a massive failure and probably cancelled, LOL.
                Early 90s. The best of times, the worst of times (for comics).

                I collect a lot of those early 90s titles. I was in Junior High when the comics boom was at its peak and could not afford more than a handful of books or convince my parents that going to the comic shop weekly was a worthwhile expenditure of gas. So now, I have complete runs of Valiant, Ultraverse, Comics Greatest World by Dark Horse, Defiant, Broadway (except for Miracle on Broadway) and Triumphant and I bought 99% of these books for pennies on the cover price. I can cite hard number on some of those print runs. The best example was Turok #1. It came out the same month as Death of Superman and at a print run of 1,750,000 it was the fifth highest print run that month (after 4 Superman books). That's about 7 to 10 times bigger in print run than Secret Invasion 1 or Final Crisis 1.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Chiclo
                  Early 90s. The best of times, the worst of times (for comics).

                  I collect a lot of those early 90s titles. I was in Junior High when the comics boom was at its peak and could not afford more than a handful of books or convince my parents that going to the comic shop weekly was a worthwhile expenditure of gas. So now, I have complete runs of Valiant, Ultraverse, Comics Greatest World by Dark Horse, Defiant, Broadway (except for Miracle on Broadway) and Triumphant and I bought 99% of these books for pennies on the cover price. I can cite hard number on some of those print runs. The best example was Turok #1. It came out the same month as Death of Superman and at a print run of 1,750,000 it was the fifth highest print run that month (after 4 Superman books). That's about 7 to 10 times bigger in print run than Secret Invasion 1 or Final Crisis 1.
                  I remember that Turok series, and all the Ultraverse stuff too! I actually kinda limes Malibu Comics back then, now of I re-read them I'm sure I wouldn't like them as much....

                  At one point Magnus, Turok and XO all had pretty big print runs, things for Valliant were really looking on the up, but after various cancellations and restarts a lot of fans gave up....
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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by comixfan1980
                    I remember that Turok series, and all the Ultraverse stuff too! I actually kinda limes Malibu Comics back then, now of I re-read them I'm sure I wouldn't like them as much....

                    At one point Magnus, Turok and XO all had pretty big print runs, things for Valliant were really looking on the up, but after various cancellations and restarts a lot of fans gave up....
                    I loved Malibu at the time, both the Ultraverse stuff and the Protectors, as mentioned earlier. I bought almost everything they had out there and still have it all squirreled away somewhere. I much prefer a self-contained, manageable universe, so when they started to interact with the Marvel characters, I knew the sad end was near (though in fairness, they might have crapped if not for Marvel's intervention, but at least they would have done it with some dignity).

                    That's why I'm so into Superpowers. I don't anticipate a Project:Superpowers/New Dark Reign Amazing Avengers (or whatever the hell they're calling them these days) crossover any time soon, and it's doubtful that they'll end up in an issue of Jungle Girl. I can just buy the Superpowers stuff and know I'm getting the whole story.

                    About the only crossover I could reluctantly swallow, if it came down to it, would be JSA because they're similar teams. The JSA had their own little stint in limbo, didn't they?

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                    • #55
                      though in fairness, they might have crapped if not for Marvel's intervention, but at least they would have done it with some dignity
                      Marvel wasn't the only company interested in buying Malibu.

                      The Protectors and their related books have a special spot in my collection, and always will. I've re-read the books several times over and they've held-up nicely over the years as far as entertainment value is concerned.

                      The Ultraverse? Didn't care for it too much, except UltraForce while George Perez was drawing it. After Marvel got ahold of The Ultraverse, it was all downhill from there.

                      I collect a lot of those early 90s titles. I was in Junior High when the comics boom was at its peak and could not afford more than a handful of books or convince my parents that going to the comic shop weekly was a worthwhile expenditure of gas. So now, I have complete runs of Valiant, Ultraverse, Comics Greatest World by Dark Horse, Defiant, Broadway (except for Miracle on Broadway) and Triumphant and I bought 99% of these books for pennies on the cover price.
                      Yeah, the early 90s were a great time to collect comics just because of how many titles were out there. I enjoyed Warriors of Plasm and The Good Guys from Defiant. Dark Horse's CGW was interesting but something was missing and I just had a hard time really getting into it. Valiant had a lot of good books, Solar and Visitor being my favorites, but after Acclaim bought the company and relaunched everything, I stopped paying attention to them.

                      Have you picked-up any of Topps Comics' Kirbyverse books from that same era? It's barely a superhero universe, but Satan's Six, Hellspawn and TeenAgents were pretty good.

                      I forgot all about Triumphant, "The Collector's Universe", although that wonderful idea they had where they would put "XXXX of 20,000" on the covers stands above all the other gimmicks of the day. I've always remembered the gimmick but never the company.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by bchat2
                        Marvel wasn't the only company interested in buying Malibu.

                        The Protectors and their related books have a special spot in my collection, and always will. I've re-read the books several times over and they've held-up nicely over the years as far as entertainment value is concerned.

                        The Ultraverse? Didn't care for it too much, except UltraForce while George Perez was drawing it. After Marvel got ahold of The Ultraverse, it was all downhill from there.



                        Yeah, the early 90s were a great time to collect comics just because of how many titles were out there. I enjoyed Warriors of Plasm and The Good Guys from Defiant. Dark Horse's CGW was interesting but something was missing and I just had a hard time really getting into it. Valiant had a lot of good books, Solar and Visitor being my favorites, but after Acclaim bought the company and relaunched everything, I stopped paying attention to them.

                        Have you picked-up any of Topps Comics' Kirbyverse books from that same era? It's barely a superhero universe, but Satan's Six, Hellspawn and TeenAgents were pretty good.

                        I forgot all about Triumphant, "The Collector's Universe", although that wonderful idea they had where they would put "XXXX of 20,000" on the covers stands above all the other gimmicks of the day. I've always remembered the gimmick but never the company.
                        Topps is in the big plan but only of intermediate interest to me. Eventually I'll get all of their books, too. Mostly from eBay because here in West Texas, there are very few comics shops and my local shop has approx. eleventy thousand back issues but no quarter or 50c bins. Quite a few backissues are a dollar, but I have all of them that I'd pay a dollar for already. Anyway, I do have quite a few Topps books but haven't sat down with a checklist just yet.

                        You are absolutely right about Malibu. The reasons why Marvel bought them out were several and complex. If DC bought them (which they too were considering), that would have put DC's market share at more than Marvel's, so it was partly defensive. The computerized colouring process Malibu used was advanced for the time and put Marvel "ahead" of the curve but gave us those garish and cartoonish looking X-Men and Spiderman books of the late 90s. I have it on good authority (second hand from Tom Mason) that when Marvel brought Malibu, the idea to start bringing Marvel characters in came from the Malibu side of things. The Ultraverse books were on the downslide for weekly and monthly purchases and the Malibu people wanted to up their numbers in the short term by bringing in Marvel characters. That led to Black September and a reboot which were a bigger disappointment than Episode 1 and the most recent season of Heroes combined.

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                        • #57
                          Your my new best friend!!!!

                          Seriously though, I'm the same way. The last thing I want is for the PS characters merge or meet characters from other companies, it is best to keep it self contained and keep the plot flow 100% DE!!

                          Originally posted by Captain Canuck
                          I loved Malibu at the time, both the Ultraverse stuff and the Protectors, as mentioned earlier. I bought almost everything they had out there and still have it all squirreled away somewhere. I much prefer a self-contained, manageable universe, so when they started to interact with the Marvel characters, I knew the sad end was near (though in fairness, they might have crapped if not for Marvel's intervention, but at least they would have done it with some dignity).

                          That's why I'm so into Superpowers. I don't anticipate a Project:Superpowers/New Dark Reign Amazing Avengers (or whatever the hell they're calling them these days) crossover any time soon, and it's doubtful that they'll end up in an issue of Jungle Girl. I can just buy the Superpowers stuff and know I'm getting the whole story.

                          About the only crossover I could reluctantly swallow, if it came down to it, would be JSA because they're similar teams. The JSA had their own little stint in limbo, didn't they?
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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Chiclo
                            That led to Black September and a reboot which were a bigger disappointment than Episode 1 and the most recent season of Heroes combined.
                            Lol...Man, I remember the anger over the changes in Mantra in particular. Brutal.

                            Ah well. I think we're in better hands with this group.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Captain Canuck
                              Lol...Man, I remember the anger over the changes in Mantra in particular. Brutal.

                              Ah well. I think we're in better hands with this group.
                              The PS universe and the people running it seem like they know what we want for the most part and won't try to shouve garbage down our throughts the way Marvel has done in the past. The thing I hate about the big two is the fact that every character that can sell has like 5-10 monthly titles that either all connect or don't connect at all and it can be confusing as all hell. Then they run universe spanning crossovers that force you to buy countless/pointless mini series and read every title in the entire line just to keep up, it isn't fair! I am sure someday we will experience the crossover thing with PS but I don't think we will have to worry about a PS character having 10 different titles surrounding the one solitary hero/villain...
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