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  • #16
    Thing is, in my opinion, most of today's "big names" just aren't on the same level as Roy or Jerry, or even Byrne. Half of them, I don't even recognize. Their "big names" mean nothing to me.

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    • #17
      That's the problem with saying "Big Names" To me Ordway, Thomas and Byrne are BIG NAMES, but it depends on the 'generation' of the collector. I'd love to see the people behind Terra Obscurra tackle P:SP. I loved TO and was hoping for a third mini.
      Always remember, Murphy was an optimist
      Munchkin 1, 2, 4, 7 Super Munchkin 1&2, Munchkin Bites 1&2, Munchkin Fu, Star Munchkin Deluxe and Star 2
      http://ghornet.deviantart.com/

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      • #18
        Everyone here knows I'm a Dynamite guy. I love Dynamite beyond comprehension and I'll always defend the company through thick and thin, but the total absence of Project Superpowers (the reason i joined this board to begin with back in '08) over the past 2+ years is just staggering. I understand things happen and they need to flesh things out, but as of right now it just seems like they forgot about the franchise and I bet you that when they bring it back it won't have the fanfare that it had back when it first launched.

        Dynamite had the chance to launch their very own superhero universe and sales were looking strong for the core title and a couple of the spin-off's and through advertising and marketing they could have made a huge splash on the comic book market with it, but instead it came to an end with no return in sight. I know they keep telling us to "stay tuned", but it's become obvious that their bread and butter isn't in superheros due to the collapse of the Kirby books and the PS books and I don't think we'll see either ever again.

        But that's just me, things COULD essentially shape up and things could come to light soon enough.....
        Dynamite Entertainment
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        • #19
          For me I will buy new Project Superpowers books if the appear, new Kirby Genesis books likewise, and probably Peter Cannon Thunderbolt, but that will be it for me; unless DE publish stuff I want as a consumer, I have nothing to buy.

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          • #20
            Masks

            Well this is interesting. Just announced at Comic Con today from Dynamite is a 8 issue mini called Masks including many of their pulp characters. Included are the Green Hornet, Kato, Spider, Zorro, the Black Terror, and the Green Llama (and someone else I'm forgetting not related to PSP).

            What are the chances of Terror and Llama being the PSP versions?

            HERE'S the link.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by JewishHobbit View Post
              Well this is interesting. Just announced at Comic Con today from Dynamite is a 8 issue mini called Masks including many of their pulp characters. Included are the Green Hornet, Kato, Spider, Zorro, the Black Terror, and the Green Llama (and someone else I'm forgetting not related to PSP).

              What are the chances of Terror and Llama being the PSP versions?

              HERE'S the link.

              (think it's Green Lama [with one "L".)
              Well, I'll be on these 8 issues like white on rice.
              Pulp heroes in a team-up book with Ross doing interiors....I'm there.

              But, look, we really DO need to get an editor, writer(s), and artist(s) to re-start ProjectSuperPowers.

              Even if Roy Thomas is not a Big Name to today's fans.... if he can write a very good story... DE should give him a "go".

              If Jerry Ordway isn't busy with a project, ..... I would get him to illustrate. (Mike Machlan to ink.)

              I don't really care if they use the same theme of the Urn (which I think makes Fighting Yank much dumber than he is) continue ...ok. I'm "in".

              WE WANT TO SEE THESE GOLDEN AGE HEROES RETURN.

              Nobody knew who Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were when Fantastic Four #1 hit the racks.

              You just NEED quality stories, characterization, and good art to build the fan base.
              Build it well, ....and they will come.

              DE did NOT do it well.... and my friends stopped buying the books. I was embarrased to beg them continue buying PSP because the stories and art were so bad.

              You can argue with me all you want, .... it was a faulty premise.... weak art... weak story....

              but GREAT COVERS....and GREAT CHARACTERS.....AND GREAT POTENTIAL.

              DE screwed the pooch.

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              • #22
                So Now what??

                Originally posted by comixfan1980 View Post
                Everyone here knows I'm a Dynamite guy. I love Dynamite beyond comprehension and I'll always defend the company through thick and thin, but the total absence of Project Superpowers (the reason i joined this board to begin with back in '08) over the past 2+ years is just staggering. I understand things happen and they need to flesh things out, but as of right now it just seems like they forgot about the franchise and I bet you that when they bring it back it won't have the fanfare that it had back when it first launched.

                Dynamite had the chance to launch their very own superhero universe and sales were looking strong for the core title and a couple of the spin-off's and through advertising and marketing they could have made a huge splash on the comic book market with it, but instead it came to an end with no return in sight. I know they keep telling us to "stay tuned", but it's become obvious that their bread and butter isn't in superheros due to the collapse of the Kirby books and the PS books and I don't think we'll see either ever again.

                But that's just me, things COULD essentially shape up and things could come to light soon enough.....
                '
                ..."and I don't think we'll see either ever again."

                Stake to the heart!!

                Yeah, they REALLY had their chance and they blew it big-time. WE ALL WANTED TO SEE THE GOLDEN AGE HEROES RETURN....and DE did not deliver.

                So, now what??

                Comment


                • #23
                  Beyound the realm of Credibility

                  Originally posted by positronic View Post
                  Here on these forums, you're preaching to the converted. I said nothing about talent or quality. I spoke of "Big Name Writers/Artists". Roy Thomas, John Byrne, and Jerry Ordway are not "Big Names" in today's comic book market. They were once, but nowadays the younger readers really don't care about these guys. The only "Big Name" creators DE is employing are Garth Ennis, and maybe Alex Ross and Kurt Busiek. David Liss is an established novelist who might be considered an "up-and-coming" new talent as far as comics are concerned, and Colton Worley might be making a name for himself on The Spider as well. They had Frank Cho on Jungle Girl, but he basically conceived & art-directed it and did covers; no interior art or writing. Based on the non-drawing power of the names Alex Ross and Kurt Busiek on Project Superpowers and Kirby Genesis, I'd have to say that sadly, their time as Big Names may have passed. DE tends to have sort of an all-star lineup of cover artists (Ross, Jusko, Cassaday, Francavilla), but if they're not doing interior art, the comic world at large doesn't get too excited about these books.

                  No, what I'm talking about here isn't really about quality or talent per se, it's about celebrity and star power -- the ability of an artist or writer to draw attention (and sales) to a project based on association alone. Sure, I'D love it if Roy Thomas and Jerry Ordway agreed to write and draw PSP, but would it put asses in seats? I doubt it. More's the pity.

                  There are two hurdles that need to be overcome. First, you have to convince the retailers to order heavily, so that the book is available and promoted on the local level. Then there's the buying public -- if you build it, will they come? No guarantees there either, which is why it's better to lead with Big Name Creators (since the characters are no longer big names themselves).
                  I'm NOT SURE a Thomas/Ordway team would put "asses" in the seats.... but they would be far more experienced in comicbook story-telling than who we had.
                  It's up to Nick. He's evidently got the money to print comics. But he should have understood the short-comings of doing what he did, and not doing it better.

                  I think The Twelve, Terra Obscura, Mystery Men, ... and other attempts at bringing back the Golden Age heroes were more successful because of stronger stories and better art.With Ross doing the covers --- you only needed a strong, experienced artist to attract the eye and a strong story to get the reader.

                  2 fails out of 3!! Just A STRONG, GREAT COVER WON'T DO IT!!

                  And for Fighting Yank to imprison his fellow heroes and heroines who he fought side by side with during this war--- in a Urn ----goes beyond credibility for me.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Project Superpowers did tell a great story, in fact, it's story and art is what originally got me interested in Dynamite Entertainment. Many here would agree that the series was so much more than great covers.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by magnoanddavey View Post
                      Nobody knew who Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were when Fantastic Four #1 hit the racks.
                      Oh come on now, Magno. SIMON & KIRBY signed every strip they produced and were the very FIRST "marquee" Big Names to be plastered on the COVERS of comics in the 1940s. Stan's name didn't appear on covers, but his name did appear on the strips themselves (for those who were paying attention) going back to the 40s.
                      DE pull list: Will Eisner's The Spirit: The Corpse Makers, ERB's The Greatest Adventure, Green Hornet '66 Meets The Spirit, PSP: Herokillers, KISS/Vampirella, Mighty Mouse

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by magnoanddavey View Post
                        I think The Twelve, Terra Obscura, Mystery Men, ... and other attempts at bringing back the Golden Age heroes were more successful because of stronger stories and better art.With Ross doing the covers --- you only needed a strong, experienced artist to attract the eye and a strong story to get the reader.
                        Terra Obscura and Mystery Men were not huge sellers. If they had been, they'd probably have become ongoing titles. The Twelve was arguably more so, but you know why? Because J. Michael Straczynski IS a "Big Name Writer" (by the standards of today's comic market) whose name is a box office draw. Chris Weston's talent is inarguable, but it took The Twelve to put him on the map as far a making a name for himself.

                        The point I'm trying to make here is that you seem to be saying that all that's needed is quality writing and artwork to make PSP into a solid success. In a perfect world, that might be true, but not in the real world. Would it make most of us posting here ecstatic if Thomas, Ordway & Machlan took over PSP? Probably, but as I said before, you're preaching to the converted. PSP can't continue unless it makes money, and to do that, it has to capture the interest of those guys who have 10-30 titles on their pull lists every week, most of whom read mostly Marvel and DC titles. Either that, or it has to have the kind of cult following of people who come to the comic shop exclusively to seek out that title, like Walking Dead or Buffy.

                        Of course, by the standards of Dynamite Entertainment, PSP doesn't have to sell in numbers like Walking Dead or Buffy. But it's an economic tradeoff between how much to spend on the creative team vs. how much money can the book generate in terms of profit.
                        Last edited by positronic; 07-16-2012, 01:49 AM.
                        DE pull list: Will Eisner's The Spirit: The Corpse Makers, ERB's The Greatest Adventure, Green Hornet '66 Meets The Spirit, PSP: Herokillers, KISS/Vampirella, Mighty Mouse

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          The early days??

                          Originally posted by positronic View Post
                          Oh come on now, Magno. SIMON & KIRBY signed every strip they produced and were the very FIRST "marquee" Big Names to be plastered on the COVERS of comics in the 1940s. Stan's name didn't appear on covers, but his name did appear on the strips themselves (for those who were paying attention) going back to the 40s.
                          What was the first Marvel comic you picked up??
                          Mine was F.F. #4 ....and I was of the "general buying public" and neither I nor any of my friends knew who Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were.
                          And they were only signing their names on the intro pages. Fandom had barely started and I'll still maintain that most of us did not know Stan or Jack.

                          I think we just disagree on some points...which is fine by me. If you think the buying public knew Jack and Joe Simon Created Captain America, did Sandman and Sandy, The Boy Commandos, or that Jack had done Green Arrow, or The Fly or The Private Life of Pvt. Strong,.... I think you would be mistaken.

                          And few knew of Stan's history of writing a host of things.
                          Fandom was at its early start and we were trying to find out who these writers and artists were.
                          (circa 1961 or '62.)

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                          • #28
                            How does Nick get PSP back on the stands???

                            Originally posted by positronic View Post
                            Terra Obscura and Mystery Men were not huge sellers. If they had been, they'd probably have become ongoing titles. The Twelve was arguably more so, but you know why? Because J. Michael Straczynski IS a "Big Name Writer" (by the standards of today's comic market) whose name is a box office draw. Chris Weston's talent is inarguable, but it took The Twelve to put him on the map as far a making a name for himself.

                            The point I'm trying to make here is that you seem to be saying that all that's needed is quality writing and artwork to make PSP into a solid success. In a perfect world, that might be true, but not in the real world. Would it make most of us posting here ecstatic if Thomas, Ordway & Machlan took over PSP? Probably, but as I said before, you're preaching to the converted. PSP can't continue unless it makes money, and to do that, it has to capture the interest of those guys who have 10-30 titles on their pull lists every week, most of whom read mostly Marvel and DC titles. Either that, or it has to have the kind of cult following of people who come to the comic shop exclusively to seek out that title, like Walking Dead or Buffy.

                            Of course, by the standards of Dynamite Entertainment, PSP doesn't have to sell in numbers like Walking Dead or Buffy. But it's an economic tradeoff between how much to spend on the creative team vs. how much money can the book generate in terms of profit.
                            Well, you make some very valid points.

                            And ....You said "the point you're trying to make here is that I seem to be saying that all that's needed is quality writing and artwork to make PSP into a solid success. In a perfect world, that might be true, but not in the real world. .....That PSP can't continue unless it makes money, ...and to do that, it has to capture the interest of those guys who have 10-30 titles on their pull lists every week."

                            Yeah, I think if Nick could keep Alex Ross as cover artist.... and get a great writer and exciting artists... and hire me as an assistant editor that had some power of direction) you could build that fan base.

                            And, with quality writing, editing, and art direction, PSP would capture the interest of the comic fans that have 10-30 titles on their pull list...... and the book and spin offs WOULD make money. (If done right. They kept losing numbers because of the poor art, writing, and coloring....imho.)

                            Look, this is only my opinion. I believe quality will sell. I grant you, I may not be living in the "real" world all the time and may be dead wrong.

                            Maybe your way IS the ONLY way. Big names that the buyers go for.

                            Can you think of another way that's not so impossible.??? What's wrong, then, with hiring a "Big name" on this book?? This is the core of THE PROJECT. NO spin-offs until the book is more than profitable.!!

                            I think THE PROJECT has the potential to be tried again. But not without the quality to make it profitable.
                            Last edited by magnoanddavey; 07-16-2012, 02:36 AM.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by magnoanddavey View Post
                              What was the first Marvel comic you picked up??
                              Mine was F.F. #4 ....and I was of the "general buying public" and neither I nor any of my friends knew who Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were.
                              And they were only signing their names on the intro pages. Fandom had barely started and I'll still maintain that most of us did not know Stan or Jack.
                              Well, how old were you when you picked up FF#4? Did you even think or care about where comic books came from? Whether or not they were produced by artists and writers and editors? Probably not, if you were the "average" comic book reader, because the age of the average comic reader skewed very young back then. But for anyone old enough or intelligent enough to be cognizant of such things, they were aware that comic books were made by humans who needed to write and draw them. This is true going back to before there were comic books. If you read Dick Tracy or Flash Gordon or Buck Rogers in the 1930s, and were cognizant of such things, you knew that they were produced by such people as Chester Gould, Alex Raymond or Dick Calkins because their names were on them. In that last case, the Buck Rogers you might be reading might NOT be drawn by Dick Calkins, but instead by Russell Keaton or Rick Yager, even though Calkins' name was on it. But if you were a little older, you might notice that certain strips were drawn differently, even if you couldn't put a name to it. Thus, to an entire generation that even paused to think of such things, they knew that there was a mysterious "good duck artist" that drew certain Donald Duck and Uncle Scrooge comics, even if they didn't know his name. It was to the benefit of the publishers to keep the focus on the characters, and let most of the writers and artists remain anonymous. Credits didn't become standard in comic books until the late 1960s, but for anyone who cared, certain strips were bylined almost from the beginning of comic books, and it's an absolute fact that the Simon & Kirby byline appeared on their comics early and often, so they were one of the creative teams that WERE known -- no fandom sleuthing involved. Nobody expects that an 8 or 10 year old in 1962 is going to have any sense of comic book history or familiarity with the creative personnel involved, unless they were fortunate enough to have an older relative or 'mentor' that could give them access to older comics and clue them into the history and what was good.
                              Last edited by positronic; 07-16-2012, 06:40 AM.
                              DE pull list: Will Eisner's The Spirit: The Corpse Makers, ERB's The Greatest Adventure, Green Hornet '66 Meets The Spirit, PSP: Herokillers, KISS/Vampirella, Mighty Mouse

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by magnoanddavey View Post
                                Look, this is only my opinion. I believe quality will sell. I grant you, I may not be living in the "real" world all the time and may be dead wrong.
                                Don't get me wrong. Quality writing and art is definitely part of the equation. But it's far from the entire picture. Bill Gaines actually lost money on Weird Science and Weird Fantasy, but kept them going at a loss because of love of the genre. Then there was a small company called Tower in the 1960s that put out some comics like T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents, Dynamo, and NoMan. Based on the all-star lineup of personnel involved, you'd have thought that these comics would have been huge sellers, maybe even still going decades later. Alas, it was not to be. To use a somewhat more recent example, there's Mike Baron and Steve Rude's Nexus. This was a relatively popular (for an independent company) comic book at one time. But as time went on, it sold less and less, even with the same creative team -- whose work, in my opinion, never went downhill. I could go on and on with examples. You can probably think of a few of your own without puzzling over it too hard.

                                Another part of the equation is this. I'm fairly convinced that the "average" comic book reader - TODAY - has NO real interest in Golden Age comic books or the characters that appeared in them. Of course, the exception would be those characters that maintained continuity over the decades. The average comic book reader today has never read Jules Feiffer's The Great Comic Book Heroes, Steranko's History of Comics, Don & Maggie Thompson's All In Color For A Dime and The Comic Book Book. The average comic book reader of today most likely hasn't read any history of comic books -- unless you count Overstreet's Price Guide. He didn't grow up reading Roy Thomas' The Invaders and All Star Squadron, or the numerous Golden Age reprints in DC's giant-size comics of the 1970s. He's only interested in the genres and characters that are part of his own direct experience growing up or later. Older, discontinued characters are ancient history to him; other genres don't interest him UNLESS they involve the work of a creator who is known to him that he likes. These things CAN be "made cool" to this consumer, but there's no automatic interest -- in fact, I'd say there's a resistance.

                                Another part of the equation is that Marvel and DC are working like hell to flood the market with as many spinoff titles of their most popular books as possible, insuring that they will have plenty of product to suck up the average consumer's disposable income... assuming they like at least some of what they already publish. The latest that I've heard is that Marvel is looking to increase the frequency of all their most popular titles. Avengers and X-Men will be published biweekly, and other popular titles will have 16-18 issues a year, rather than the normal 12. Make no mistake, if an independent publisher chooses to compete in the superhero genre, he's got some tough sledding -- I think if you look around at most of the successful independent titles, you'll notice that most of them aren't superhero genre. What about all those Golden Age and Silver Age reprint hardcovers? They're being purchased by the people that aren't spending $50-100 a week on NEW comics, and the average age of those consumers is likely 20 years older than those buying new comics, for the most part.

                                The other basic question we have to ask when we are talking about "quality" is -- whose definition of quality? If I go and pick up the top-selling titles according to Diamond Comics Top 100 list, I would have to conclude that the average comic book reader has a very different definition of "quality" than yours and mine.
                                Last edited by positronic; 07-16-2012, 06:34 AM.
                                DE pull list: Will Eisner's The Spirit: The Corpse Makers, ERB's The Greatest Adventure, Green Hornet '66 Meets The Spirit, PSP: Herokillers, KISS/Vampirella, Mighty Mouse

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