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Best and Worst of Project Superpowers

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  • #61
    Love isn't easy to abide.

    Originally posted by positronic View Post
    Sorry, I'm just a bitter old man who has seen too many good and beautiful comic books die on the vine because "the marketplace" did not embrace them.

    The recent Kirby Genesis is a perfect example. WHAT, I ask you what, was wrong with that comic book that it did not fly off the racks? Kurt Busiek's writing sucked? Jack Herbert's art sucked? OK, then I guess I don't know what's good and what sucks. Yeah, later issues were... late. But this has not hurt other series where the interest level was already there. I'm afraid I no longer have any confidence in the marketplace to embrace the things that I find to be "high quality" comic books.
    Might I encourage you to NOT be a "bitter old man".
    I've seen a lot of comics not succeed because of the marketplace, too.
    One of my most bitter moments was when Infantino cancelled Kirby's 4th World books.

    To me, everyone should have been able to see that this was the pinacle of the Greatest Comicbook artist's project and he should have been allowed to continue.

    Every so often an artist comes along with a book that makes me realize the spirit of the old comics is still around. That's what the people want after all. And the publishers will have to put out what people want or the publishers won't sell books.

    Like the novel right now, it's just junk. A real novel will be written because it answers some need that people have.

    The comic book answers some need in the comic reader, too. Remember the Return of the Dark Knight. About that time, things were seeming a little stale.

    And, then, Alan Moore's stuff pumped more life into the comics.

    Let's "hang on" and see what might explode for us next. I'm trying to "not give up", too!!

    I know, sometimes it's not easy to suffer this.... when it's something we love as much as comics.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by positronic View Post
      Sometimes you luck out. The only talent the early Marvel had available to it was the talent DC wasn't interested in utilizing. (Ah, but it was a different world back then. One can only imagine the Martin Goodman and Stan Lee of 1962's reaction to the idea that one day Marvel would be publishing $4.00 comic books that sold 40,000 copies per issue!)

      But Marvel was lean and mean where DC wasn't, and the company's innovative editorial approach (yes, along with the talent DC couldn't recognize) is what put them on the map in a Pop Culture era where the times, they were a-changin', along with the audience. Marvel was the only superhero publisher besides DC that was thriving (after a near-death experience), while the other companies were dying. And not only was DC the publisher unable to recognize talent until it was too late, they nurtured a viper in their midst by taking the short money from their distribution of Marvel's books, never aware of the fact that they were raising a titan that would soon overshadow their own empire. What if, in say 1964-1965, Jack Liebowitz, recognizing Goodman's threat to DC's own market share, had issued an ultimatum to Goodman -- either allow DC to buy him out, or find a new distributor? (DC did exactly this to Charlie Gaines' AA Comics in 1945.) What would Goodman have done then?

      The comic market is SO different today (distribution, audience, competition) that I'm not sure the analogy applies.
      Don't forget that Marvel also were very productive with the lightning-in-a-bottle magic of Kirby working at a tremendous rate and even Ditko pencilling more than 400 pages per year at his peak (I can think of only one current generation artists who could aspire to that work-rate BTW).

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      • #63
        Originally posted by leonmallett View Post
        Don't forget that Marvel also were very productive with the lightning-in-a-bottle magic of Kirby working at a tremendous rate and even Ditko pencilling more than 400 pages per year at his peak (I can think of only one current generation artists who could aspire to that work-rate BTW).
        Yes, an excellent point. The lightning-in-a-bottle magic of Kirby, .... and having Steve Ditko...and Stan writing made Marvel's foundation. From there, they built a wonderful Universe.

        I think they are impossible to match.... but that doesn't count out this PSP comic. It could still work.

        It could work as a foundation and DE could slowly build from there. They could not compete ...but they could look at Marvel as the trail blazer...and still make PSP work.

        Better writers, better artists, .... better editor.... same cover artist.!!

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        • #64
          I'd like to say it was all work ethic, guys who lived through a Great Depression and had a certain hunger and mental toughness. But that's only part of it - the truth is, they had to be prolific to pay the rent, because page rates were so low. They couldn't afford to be too fussy, linger over pages, and do a lot of redrawing like an obsessive perfectionist either, because time was money. Kirby and Ditko were of the rarest breed, good AND fast. But with Kirby especially, small details were sometimes inconsistent from page to page, even panel to panel.

          Regarding Stan Lee, I've recently been reading the Stan's Soapbox collection put out by The Hero Initiative, and came to realize that Stan was my Svengali, my Billy Graham, and Marvel Comics, in the Silver Age, was probably the closest thing I ever felt to having religion. I really was a True Believer. Not sure if that realization should scare me or not.
          Last edited by positronic; 08-09-2012, 11:06 AM.
          DE pull list: Will Eisner's The Spirit: The Corpse Makers, ERB's The Greatest Adventure, Green Hornet '66 Meets The Spirit, PSP: Herokillers, KISS/Vampirella, Mighty Mouse

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by positronic View Post
            I'd like to say it was all work ethic, guys who lived through a Great Depression and had a certain hunger and mental toughness. But that's only part of it - the truth is, they had to be prolific to pay the rent, because page rates were so low. They couldn't afford to be too fussy, linger over pages, and do a lot of redrawing like an obsessive perfectionist either, because time was money. Kirby and Ditko were of the rarest breed, good AND fast. But with Kirby especially, small details were sometimes inconsistent from page to page, even panel to panel.

            Regarding Stan Lee, I've recently been reading the Stan's Soapbox collection put out by The Hero Initiative, and came to realize that Stan was my Svengali, my Billy Graham, and Marvel Comics, in the Silver Age, was probably the closest thing I ever felt to having religion. I really was a True Believer. Not sure if that realization should scare me or not.
            You are seriously funny.
            Yeah, I read Stan's Soapbox, too.
            Stan and Jack got me through many of my most difficult years, and sometimes, I lived for the next Lee and Kirby or Lee and Ditko ....next issue. When things were roughest, I could always drop back into my imagination and get lost in the Marvel "world".

            You're right about the "toughness" and "hunger" of some of those guys. Kirby's output was absolutely amazing.
            (And I still wanted Stan and Jack to do an AVENGERS ANNUAL -- 72 pages long --- with The AVENGERS, THE FANTASTIC FOUR, AND THE X-MEN in a tremendous battle with the likes of Doctor Doom, Magneto, and the FRIGHTFUL FOUR ....OR The Masters of Evil.)

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            • #66
              Originally posted by magnoanddavey View Post
              (And I still wanted Stan and Jack to do an AVENGERS ANNUAL -- 72 pages long --- with The AVENGERS, THE FANTASTIC FOUR, AND THE X-MEN in a tremendous battle with the likes of Doctor Doom, Magneto, and the FRIGHTFUL FOUR ....OR The Masters of Evil.)
              Guess they missed their big chance at the wedding, huh?

              Mastermind, Toad, Unus the Untouchable and The Blob get no love. Some Brotherhood.
              DE pull list: Will Eisner's The Spirit: The Corpse Makers, ERB's The Greatest Adventure, Green Hornet '66 Meets The Spirit, PSP: Herokillers, KISS/Vampirella, Mighty Mouse

              Comment


              • #67
                Nick, What's Up with PSP??

                Originally posted by positronic View Post
                Guess they missed their big chance at the wedding, huh?

                Mastermind, Toad, Unus the Untouchable and The Blob get no love. Some Brotherhood.
                Yeah, the Wedding was too short. I wanted a full 72-page story!! A little more like FF Annual #1 only longer.... and a different inker than the Wedding. Ayers would have been fine.

                I liked that Brotherhood when it was Mastermind, Toad, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch and their helmeted leader. Yeah, I would have loved to see them in "the fight", too.

                When does Nick break in to our posts and tell us when PSP re-starts??
                Last edited by magnoanddavey; 08-12-2012, 03:05 AM.

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                • #68
                  The Best and the Worst of Project Superpowers!!

                  I want to say, again, about the Alex Ross covers on Project Superpowers were one of the best things of the series.
                  The covers were so well done that almost anyone who loved these Golden Age heroes were almost compelled to buy each issue.

                  Another thing that I thought fell in the "best" zone was the concept of bringing back all of those wonderful Golden Age Heroes. That was something I'd wanted to see since I first began to know that there was a Golden Age of Comics.

                  To me, what failed was the story and the interior art. The artwork should have been simplier---especially when the heroes were in the 1940's part of the story.

                  The colors were too murky and the figures were not well-defined. I kept buying each issue because I thought things would get better. I bought every issue.
                  Last edited by magnoanddavey; 08-19-2012, 04:10 AM.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Captain Canuck View Post
                    It's pretty much stated point blank. Not only are the characters said to be immortal throughout the second half of the story, some are actually referred to as their mythological counterpart.

                    Here's a quote from Green Lama: "I have come to believe that your time in the urn has you changed you all...turning you into truly mythical beings....I'm not longer sure if any of you can even be considered mortals anymore".

                    Yank: "The heroes' incarceration in Pandora's urn made them like you, Zeus....You can't kill them. Not anymore."

                    Lady Satan's eyes began to glow and she said to not call her by that name anymore but to "Call me Hades".
                    Dare looked at DDD's after he grew spikes all over his body and an eye on his forehead and called him "Sheitan". She later says she knows he is the great Satan in disguise.

                    So they didn't write out a full list of who represents who, but there's pretty strong evidence that those in the urn are now immortal incarnations of characters from mythology. I didn't think there was anything vague about it, or any indication that it would be temporary being that they talk about in the very last pages of issue 12. But if the story around volume three is based on doing away with that aspect, I welcome it enthusiastically.
                    I agree with this assessment, too.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      The whole mythological angle is kind of messed up, because there are too many unanswered questions. Since Pandora's urn is from Greek mythology, does this mean that only the Greek gods ceased to exist, and were replaced by the heroes who sojourned in the urn? Or is it ALL mythological beings, not just the Greek ones? And why does Zeus still exist then? Is the implication then that the heroes who entered the urn were then replaced by the Greek gods, who took over their physical forms? That would mean they're not actually the same people (their souls, minds, identities, whatever you want to call it) that went into the urn. And how does the quasi-mythological Samson (not a "god" per se, but still) figure into this picture of how the universe works?

                      A simpler explanation (and the one I prefer) is that only the energies (matter & energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only change form) formerly possessed by the mythological gods (which gave them their power and made them gods) were transferred to the urn-dwelling PSP characters, and not necessarily on a one-to-one basis. This would leave the PSP characters as the same individuals they were born as, altered only physically.

                      This still leaves us with the dangling question of if "they can never be killed" then why don't the original gods still exist in their original forms? Dying or ceasing to exist, seems like a matter of semantics.
                      Last edited by positronic; 08-19-2012, 05:23 AM.
                      DE pull list: Will Eisner's The Spirit: The Corpse Makers, ERB's The Greatest Adventure, Green Hornet '66 Meets The Spirit, PSP: Herokillers, KISS/Vampirella, Mighty Mouse

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by positronic View Post
                        The whole mythological angle is kind of messed up, because there are too many unanswered questions. Since Pandora's urn is from Greek mythology, does this mean that only the Greek gods ceased to exist, and were replaced by the heroes who sojourned in the urn? Or is it ALL mythological beings, not just the Greek ones? And why does Zeus still exist then? Is the implication then that the heroes who entered the urn were then replaced by the Greek gods, who took over their physical forms? That would mean they're not actually the same people (their souls, minds, identities, whatever you want to call it) that went into the urn. And how does the quasi-mythological Samson (not a "god" per se, but still) figure into this picture of how the universe works?

                        A simpler explanation (and the one I prefer) is that only the energies (matter & energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only change form) formerly possessed by the mythological gods (which gave them their power and made them gods) were transferred to the urn-dwelling PSP characters, and not necessarily on a one-to-one basis. This would leave the PSP characters as the same individuals they were born as, altered only physically.

                        This still leaves us with the dangling question of if "they can never be killed" then why don't the original gods still exist in their original forms? Dying or ceasing to exist, seems like a matter of semantics.
                        Yes, Pos, it ALL gets pretty messy. To try and put it in the "context" of the writer, it twists the mind in ways that it should not be twisted. The whole thing is very messy.

                        That's why I plead for a new start for a beginning, middle, and end that makes sense.

                        And I'll say again, I love the concept of returning these Golden Age Heroes (and villains) in a story that lays the FOUNDATION of the Dynamite Entertainment Universe and is well-written and well-drawn --- so that in the years that lay ahead, we can look back with fond rememberance at where it all began.

                        But QUALITY art and story-telling are absolutely necessary to lay that FOUNDATION.!!
                        The "Project" failed on those grounds.
                        Last edited by magnoanddavey; 09-08-2012, 05:54 PM.

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