Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Astro City

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Astro City

    Now that Astro City is back what do you think about a P:SP book in a similar style that tells the story of their world with out focusing on a single hero?

    It would be hard to maintain momentum but it could work. Treat it like a big cross over event but all the stories take place in the same title or an occasional one shot. Since it's not the brainchild of a single person (or a small group) it could even be only the starting point/center piece of the universe everybody is hoping for.
    Always remember, Murphy was an optimist
    Munchkin 1, 2, 4, 7 Super Munchkin 1&2, Munchkin Bites 1&2, Munchkin Fu, Star Munchkin Deluxe and Star 2
    http://ghornet.deviantart.com/

  • #2
    Honestly, AC works only because of the right combination of creators - and it gives Busiek an opportunity for a unique writing voice, and he has ultimate control over where everything goes. Ultimately, Astro City as a single title is its own universe.

    Those circumstances would not be replicated, so you are simply talking an episodic PSP title, and I do not think there is an appetite for that in any shared universe, let alone PSP. The circumstances cannot be replicated so it does not serve as useful model.

    Simply getting out good books in a timely manner is a simpler approach, and possibly when more likely to work than the haphazard release schedule PSP has seen from DE.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Ghornet2 View Post
      Now that Astro City is back what do you think about a P:SP book in a similar style that tells the story of their world with out focusing on a single hero?
      Well, the original PSP did tell the story of their world, and didn't focus on a single hero. Some people think it was too unfocused, and that's why it didn't catch on more with the average comic reader.

      Astro City's conceit is that (just like Busiek's MARVELS) it's largely told from the perspective of the "average citizen".

      Comment


      • #4
        I would think a limited series of 4 to 6 books which told one story ....could be a "useful model".

        Especially if, the heroes of each of the "house brand" of heroes is used in each story.

        For example:
        One story around the heroes of Lev Gleason: Daredevil, Silver Streak, The Claw, The Ghost etc.
        One story around the heroes of Holyoke: Cat-Man, Kitten, etc.
        One story around the heroes of Ace Comics: Magno and Davey, Lash Lightning, Lightning Girl, The Sword, The Raven, etc.
        One story around the heroes of Nedor comics: Pyroman, American Crusader, Black Terror, Green Ghost, The Liberator, etc.
        One story around the heroes of Columbia Comics: Sky Man, The Face, Marvelo, ect.

        We're in the same Universe but we can still develop the characters from each "house brand".

        Once established ... heroes from one "house brand" could team up with another "house brand" of heroes!! ...or not!!
        Last edited by magnoanddavey; 08-04-2013, 01:58 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Small groups good; large crowds bad. There needs to be enough space for us to get to know these characters as individuals. In a 6-issue series, 6 characters should be the outside limit. 3 or 4 characters would be better.

          Comment


          • #6
            A place to develop heroes!!

            Originally posted by pulphero View Post
            Small groups good; large crowds bad. There needs to be enough space for us to get to know these characters as individuals. In a 6-issue series, 6 characters should be the outside limit. 3 or 4 characters would be better.
            Yes, "small groups good; large crowds bad".
            But we could see our heroes develop in such 4 to 6 issue series.

            Different teams (writer, artist, inker) could give us their approach to each "house brand"... and those that sold best could be in another 4 to 6 issue series/story.

            Just so there is a place to develop these heroes.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by magnoanddavey View Post
              I would think a limited series of 4 to 6 books which told one story ....could be a "useful model".

              Especially if, the heroes of each of the "house brand" of heroes is used in each story.

              For example:
              One story around the heroes of Lev Gleason: Daredevil, Silver Streak, The Claw, The Ghost etc.
              One story around the heroes of Holyoke: Cat-Man, Kitten, etc.
              One story around the heroes of Ace Comics: Magno and Davey, Lash Lightning, Lightning Girl, The Sword, The Raven, etc.
              One story around the heroes of Nedor comics: Pyroman, American Crusader, Black Terror, Green Ghost, The Liberator, etc.
              One story around the heroes of Columbia Comics: Sky Man, The Face, Marvelo, ect.

              We're in the same Universe but we can still develop the characters from each "house brand".

              Once established ... heroes from one "house brand" could team up with another "house brand" of heroes!! ...or not!!
              They could even set it up that each issue "features" a different hero and we get a one page origin. They could then finish it off with a hero (or 2) from each line coming together to solve a big problem. Maybe something hinted at through each series.

              And I can't help but notice who got listed first from Ace
              Always remember, Murphy was an optimist
              Munchkin 1, 2, 4, 7 Super Munchkin 1&2, Munchkin Bites 1&2, Munchkin Fu, Star Munchkin Deluxe and Star 2
              http://ghornet.deviantart.com/

              Comment


              • #8
                To be honest, I don't know that there's any particular reason for DE to segregate these characters into miniseries which identify groups of characters according to their former publishers. 99% of the readers (and potential readers) have no awareness of who published what, 70 years ago. There was a little bit of that going on in PSP Chapters 1 and 2, with various cliques among the general throng, but I see no sense in limiting the potential team-ups to only those characters which once shared the same publisher in the 1940s. Now they ALL share the same publisher.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by pulphero View Post
                  To be honest, I don't know that there's any particular reason for DE to segregate these characters into miniseries which identify groups of characters according to their former publishers. 99% of the readers (and potential readers) have no awareness of who published what, 70 years ago. There was a little bit of that going on in PSP Chapters 1 and 2, with various cliques among the general throng, but I see no sense in limiting the potential team-ups to only those characters which once shared the same publisher in the 1940s. Now they ALL share the same publisher.
                  Could not agree more. The point is telling stories framed in the 'now', not wholly framed by the past.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    What!! Me, prejudice!!???

                    Originally posted by Ghornet2 View Post
                    They could even set it up that each issue "features" a different hero and we get a one page origin. They could then finish it off with a hero (or 2) from each line coming together to solve a big problem. Maybe something hinted at through each series.

                    And I can't help but notice who got listed first from Ace
                    There MAY BE some prejudice there.

                    But yes, you see it, Ghornet. A place for these heroes to develop.

                    And team up .... like you said. Like teaming members of the JLA with The Avenges and the X-Men and the Doom Patrol.

                    And ....a page origin for the heroes.

                    Give creative teams the most creative approach possible.

                    I want these guys back on the comic page. The more the merrier. But popular enough to sell well.
                    Last edited by magnoanddavey; 08-11-2013, 11:05 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      leonmallett
                      View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Add as Contact

                      Superhero Join Date:May 2009
                      Posts:195
                      Originally Posted by pulphero
                      To be honest, I don't know that there's any particular reason for DE to segregate these characters into miniseries which identify groups of characters according to their former publishers. 99% of the readers (and potential readers) have no awareness of who published what, 70 years ago. There was a little bit of that going on in PSP Chapters 1 and 2, with various cliques among the general throng, but I see no sense in limiting the potential team-ups to only those characters which once shared the same publisher in the 1940s. Now they ALL share the same publisher.
                      Could not agree more. The point is telling stories framed in the 'now', not wholly framed by the past.


                      Well, let me ask you: Do you think that DE's approach of returning the Golden Age super-heroes to the present was successful.??

                      If you do, then maybe you miss my point. (And we have little to discuss.)

                      I'm of the opinion that PSP wasn't a successful approach to their return.

                      One of the points that failed their return (to me) was the fact that the readers didn't REALLY know these heroes and did not invest enough interest in the title to keep reading the books.

                      Compare the character development of the PSP heroes to the character development of the early (first 100 issues of) FANTASTIC FOUR, Peter Parker-SPIDERMAN, IRONMAN, X-MEN, etc.)

                      CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT would be KEY to those many readers that quit PSP.

                      Had I not LOVED the Golden Age heroes of PSP ---I would have stopped buying that title.

                      By breaking up these heroes into their (let's call it) "brand groups" --- you could accomplish a number of things.
                      And you could give a number of creators a chance at a group of heroes they would like to play with.
                      The most successful creative team could get their group going as a monthly.... for one.

                      For another, --- to me, it matters GREATLY that they are not thrown into one pot, and stirred in together with other heroes that they have NO historical relevance to. Especially when we, and the current readers of today, don't know who the heck is who.

                      The point of playing these characters off against their world is at the basis of who they are.

                      I was excited to see Daredevil, The Claw, The Ghost, and Silver Streak in the story together, It was one of the things that I thought they were doing "right".

                      I loved the Ross picture of the ACE heroes sitting around a table --JLA style. I loved it. And the story where they all came back together. They were created to be together. Geeesh. Some of them had teamed up on the covers of 4 FAVORITES.

                      And that cover with SKYMAN, THE FACE, and MARVELO.... was magic to my Golden Age -loving eye balls.

                      And that GHOST cover with his plane. Holy-crap!!!


                      (Where is Positronics??)

                      ...............................

                      What direction would you chart for our heroes at this point??

                      I would be interested in what you two would "stir up".!!
                      Last edited by magnoanddavey; 08-11-2013, 10:54 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        A lot of those little groups of characters commonly appeared on various Golden Age comic book COVERS, but actual stories in which they teamed up are relatively few and far between. We tend to forget that, since we see the covers so often, and the stories within are reprinted so seldom. It seems that just about every Golden Age publisher had its own title equivalent to Timely's ALL WINNERS or DC's WORLD'S FINEST, in which the publisher's most popular characters appeared in individual features, but only interacted with each other on the cover, in a scene which never took place in any of the stories within.
                        Last edited by pulphero; 08-13-2013, 03:40 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by magnoanddavey View Post
                          To be honest, I don't know that there's any particular reason for DE to segregate these characters into miniseries which identify groups of characters according to their former publishers. 99% of the readers (and potential readers) have no awareness of who published what, 70 years ago. There was a little bit of that going on in PSP Chapters 1 and 2, with various cliques among the general throng, but I see no sense in limiting the potential team-ups to only those characters which once shared the same publisher in the 1940s. Now they ALL share the same publisher.
                          Could not agree more. The point is telling stories framed in the 'now', not wholly framed by the past.

                          Well, let me ask you: Do you think that DE's approach of returning the Golden Age super-heroes to the present was successful.??

                          If you do, then maybe you miss my point. (And we have little to discuss.)

                          I'm of the opinion that PSP wasn't a successful approach to their return.

                          One of the points that failed their return (to me) was the fact that the readers didn't REALLY know these heroes and did not invest enough interest in the title to keep reading the books.

                          Compare the character development of the PSP heroes to the character development of the early (first 100 issues of) FANTASTIC FOUR, Peter Parker-SPIDERMAN, IRONMAN, X-MEN, etc.)

                          CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT would be KEY to those many readers that quit PSP.

                          Had I not LOVED the Golden Age heroes of PSP ---I would have stopped buying that title.

                          By breaking up these heroes into their (let's call it) "brand groups" --- you could accomplish a number of things.
                          And you could give a number of creators a chance at a group of heroes they would like to play with.
                          The most successful creative team could get their group going as a monthly.... for one.

                          For another, --- to me, it matters GREATLY that they are not thrown into one pot, and stirred in together with other heroes that they have NO historical relevance to. Especially when we, and the current readers of today, don't know who the heck is who.

                          The point of playing these characters off against their world is at the basis of who they are.

                          I was excited to see Daredevil, The Claw, The Ghost, and Silver Streak in the story together, It was one of the things that I thought they were doing "right".

                          I loved the Ross picture of the ACE heroes sitting around a table --JLA style. I loved it. And the story where they all came back together. They were created to be together. Geeesh. Some of them had teamed up on the covers of 4 FAVORITES.

                          And that cover with SKYMAN, THE FACE, and MARVELO.... was magic to my Golden Age -loving eye balls.

                          And that GHOST cover with his plane. Holy-crap!!!


                          (Where is Positronics??)

                          ...............................

                          What direction would you chart for our heroes at this point??

                          I would be interested in what you two would "stir up".!!
                          That DE has not been successful with a property launched amid 113K opening issue sales is not proof that had it segregated its characters by publisher stable that it would have been successful.

                          Just because 'A' struggled or even failed, does not mean 'B' would have been an automatic success.

                          No, I would argue that the problems were more in DE's delivery; ever-lengthening times between issues simply does not encourage readers to stay. Taking story and series structure problems out of the mix (not denying them, just saying they are not the only problem), the biggest problem was, I think, the fact that the readership could never be sure when the next issue would arrive.

                          But flooding even more characters into prominence along the lines of publishing houses, well that overlooks that the lightning in a bottle magic that allows a character to breakout won't work in a rigid approach like that. DE struggled to publish more than 2-3 concurrent PSP books, why would they look at more concurrently. And if following a rigid publishing-house based model (well why bother since very few readers will care of the historical legacy I would wager), you end up cycling through sets of characters and leaving them.

                          To assume readers will be put off because they are not in the correct groupings of characters seems a mighty big assumption. I really fail to see any valid back-up to say that such an approach can or automatically would work, sorry to say.

                          It appears you are equating lack of success with the fact the characters did not appear as you wanted, when in fact many other factors were likely in play.
                          Last edited by leonmallett; 08-14-2013, 05:31 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by magnoanddavey View Post

                            What direction would you chart for our heroes at this point??

                            I would be interested in what you two would "stir up".!!
                            I don't say your scheme is completely unworkable, but it seems overly ambitious, and the appeal of the 'brands' is only going to impact the awareness of a relatively small percentage of the readership (even smaller if you're considering the 'potential' readership).

                            I think DE is probably going to stick with the plan they seem to be using with THE OWL. Slowly roll out a number of different trial-run miniseries, each focusing on one to three characters at most, and then gauge by sales what direction the overall 'universe' should go in.

                            It's possible DE still has some master plan involving a 'Chapter 3' (whether or not they'll actually market it as that) under the PSP logo, but are waiting to snare a high-profile writer to help sell a relaunch.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Stories told from those 1940-Golden Age covers!!

                              Originally posted by pulphero View Post
                              A lot of those little groups of characters commonly appeared on various Golden Age comic book COVERS, but actual stories in which they teamed up are relatively few and far between. We tend to forget that, since we see the covers so often, and the stories within are reprinted so seldom. It seems that just about every Golden Age publisher had its own title equivalent to Timely's ALL WINNERS or DC's WORLD'S FINEST, in which the publisher's most popular characters appeared in individual features, but only interacted with each other on the cover, in a scene which never took place in any of the stories within.
                              Yes, you're right. But those covers and "possible stories" certainly are fertile ground for some future great stories FROM the past. (Which, again, I would love to see.)
                              Last edited by magnoanddavey; 08-18-2013, 12:19 AM.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X