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  • Owl tpb?

    I keep looking to see if there will be an Owl tpb, yet have not come across an y information yet; have any other PSU fans on here heard or seen anything about this?

  • #2
    i am guessing that with the reboot neither the Owl nor the X-Mas Special will be collected now.

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    • #3
      I'm still waiting for TPBs of Kirby Genesis: Dragonsbane, Peter Cannon: Thunderbolt, and Thun'Da too. Guess you can tell how well they sold, huh?

      Comment


      • #4
        Well, from Diamond's comic books listings for last year,
        * Owl #1 = 8,010 copies (http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/26456.html)
        * Owl #2 = 5,114 copies (http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/26668.html)
        * Owl #3 = 4,307 copies (http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomi...3/2013-09.html)
        * Owl #4 = 3,780 copies (http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomi...3/2013-10.html)

        Mind you, Diamond isn't involved with digital comic book sales, and they don't service comic shops all over the world.

        Comment


        • #5
          I wonder what the cutoff point is, beyond which a TPB collection is deemed unfeasible. It's a safe bet that anything that sold below 10k copies in serial format doesn't make the cut. Of course, they need to average that number across the span of issues collected in the TPB.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by pulphero View Post
            I wonder what the cutoff point is, beyond which a TPB collection is deemed unfeasible. It's a safe bet that anything that sold below 10k copies in serial format doesn't make the cut. Of course, they need to average that number across the span of issues collected in the TPB.
            Are you thinking 10,000 for ALL companies, or just for Dynamite?

            Does Dynamite routinely have most titles selling over 10K?

            Here's a list of several books for April of 2014 and how many copies they sold through Diamond:
            180th - MAGNUS ROBOT FIGHTER #2 - 9,898 copies
            188th - TUROK DINOSAUR HUNTER #3 - 9,586 copies
            200th - TWILIGHT ZONE #4 - 9,014 copies
            203rd - WARLORD OF MARS #100 (MR) - 8,814 copies
            210th - SHADOW YEAR ONE #8 - 8,230 copies
            227th - SHADOW #24 - 7,588 copies
            241st - DOC SAVAGE #5 - 6,974 copies
            242nd - BATTLESTAR GALACTICA SIX #1 - 6,956 copies
            243rd - GAME OF THRONES #20 (MR) - 6,938 copies
            256th - SIX MILLION DOLLAR MAN SEASON 6 #2 - 6,531 copies
            267th - ASH & THE ARMY OF DARKNESS #5 - 6,207 copies
            281st - ASH & THE ARMY OF DARKNESS #6 - 5,884 copies
            282nd - RED SONJA AND CUB ONE SHOT - 5,877 copies
            292nd - WARLORD OF MARS #35 (MR) - 5,570 copies
            (http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/28603.html)

            As stated before, Diamond isn't dealing in digital sales and is not the sole comic book distributor worldwide.
            These numbers came from the Top 300 list; anything selling less than 5,375 copies is also not included.
            (#300 sold 5,374 copies through Diamond.) If you want check for lower than 5,375 copies yourself, see http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomi...4/2014-04.html.
            Last edited by MajorHoy; 06-10-2014, 08:29 PM.

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            • #7
              I didn't realize quite how many DE titles sold quite below 10k, or if that's more of a recent indication that DE's sales are worse than they used to be. Then again, I probably wouldn't have guessed that selling 9000 copies would put you in the Top 200. For the record, what was #300 that month and how many copies did it sell?

              Certainly Green Hornet Strikes! did not sell that well (or was it just the later issues?), yet it got a trade paperback. 10k would be far below DC and Marvel's cutoff point (or used to be not that long ago), but maybe the fact that 9000 copies still ranks you in the top 2/3rds of the Top 300 is an indication that the entire market as a whole is slipping. Either that or those estimations are way off-base. Does that include international sales? I know there are only an estimated 2000 comic book stores in America, don't know what the number would be world-wide.

              What's the profitability on these books? Consider that a $4 SRP comic book costs your retailer, on average, $2. (Also consider the retailer's operating overhead, and the fact that 9000 represents the number of copies he BOUGHT, not the number of copies he SOLD.) Diamond is taking a good cut of that $2 (won't hazard a guess) to transport, warehouse, and ship them to retailers. Productions costs (editorial/creative/advertising) are fixed for DE, as is printing and binding.
              Last edited by pulphero; 06-10-2014, 09:34 PM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by pulphero View Post
                I didn't realize quite how many DE titles sold quite below 10k, or if that's more of a recent indication that DE's sales are worse than they used to be. Then again, I probably wouldn't have guessed that selling 9000 copies would put you in the Top 200. For the record, what was #300 that month and how many copies did it sell?

                Certainly Green Hornet Strikes! did not sell that well (or was it just the later issues?), yet it got a trade paperback. 10k would be far below DC and Marvel's cutoff point (or used to be not that long ago), but maybe the fact that 9000 copies still ranks you in the top 2/3rds of the Top 300 is an indication that the entire market as a whole is slipping. Either that or those estimations are way off-base. Does that include international sales? I know there are only an estimated 2000 comic book stores in America, don't know what the number would be world-wide.

                What's the profitability on these books? Consider that a $4 SRP comic book costs your retailer, on average, $2. (Also consider the retailer's operating overhead, and the fact that 9000 represents the number of copies he BOUGHT, not the number of copies he SOLD.) Diamond is taking a good cut of that $2 (won't hazard a guess) to transport, warehouse, and ship them to retailers. Productions costs (editorial/creative/advertising) are fixed for DE, as is printing and binding.
                DC and Marvel are totally different creatures . . . bigger staffs, bigger expenses to run the company. They also have larger market penetration. They'd be more likely to cut a book due to lack of sufficient sales that other, smaller companies would consider to be doing well.

                As I've tried to make clear . . . these are just Diamond's numbers, and I don't know how far beyond the mainland U.S. (and maybe into Canada?) they service. The numbers there also are STRICTLY what are ordered by comic book shops, so who knows how many of those are sold new to single customers and how many go into back-stock, or to customers buying multiple variant covers, etc.
                As for what was #300, follow the link (http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/28603.html) and you'll see the Top 300 list, or follow this link (http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomi...4/2014-04.html) and go deeper to see where books like Battlestar Galactica #10, Kings Watch #5, Mark Waid Green Hornet #11, and others placed.

                (These are also the April numbers . . . I'm not sure how soon May's numbers will be published, but I'd guess somewhere in the next few days.)

                Comment


                • #9
                  No, they're not Diamond's numbers. They're someone's estimated calculation, based on the information Diamond DOES provide: Sales Rank in dollar shares and unit shares. Those numbers are a PERCENTAGE based on 2 factors: the total number of units and retail dollars for that month, and the total number of units and dollars of the best-selling comic book that month. Diamond does not tell you that they sold X number of copies of Batman that month. When Diamond gives you "unit shares", they are not giving you the actual number of issues of Batman they sold. The estimated calculation is only going to be as accurate as the KNOWN (or assumed to be correctly known) quantity (in dollars or units) that the people doing the estimation plug into one of those percentages to "reverse engineer" the rest of Diamond's "shares" into REAL numbers.

                  From COMICHRON's FAQ regarding how the estimates are calculated:


                  Q: How does Comichron derive the actual sales figures?

                  A: The same way everyone else did for years: with reports from one or more publishers on what they actually sold to distributors, the entire chart can be unlocked. I began my monthly decoding of the charts in September 1996, and have been working to gather the information needed to figure out earlier months.

                  This needs explaining in more detail. How is it that COMICHRON has access to these reports (usually considered proprietary business information by the publishers)? And if they DO have these reports from the publisher giving actual numbers of copies, then why not tell us which of these numbers is confirmed as real, and which merely estimated from Diamond's percentage shares? And if the reports are giving the publishers' figures for "what they sold to Diamond", and Diamond's sales charts are based on what Diamond "sold to retailers" in any given month, are we to assume Diamond's warehouses are emptied of all copies of any title and issue number listed on the sales chart (i.e. Diamond turns over 100% of the monthly comics sold to them by publishers to its retail clients by the time it publishes its monthly sales charts?) This can't be right, as some issues of some comic books "shipped sold out" on the day of release (no standing stock in the warehouse) while other issues of comic books are available "in stock" for re-order for many months.

                  Q: How accurate are the sales estimates?

                  A: Before February 2003, Diamond was reporting preorders, and in that era, the margin of error was higher. I used a basket of publishers' actual sales figures to derive a likely estimate for the Order Index Numbers — and found that there was significant variance because the publishers did not get their purchase orders at the same time relative to the moment Diamond calculated its charts. But after that date, Diamond switched to reporting final orders — and while that meant that the charts came out later than they did in the preorder days, suddenly, all the variance between publishers' reports vanished. This is why estimates computed by Comichron, ICV2, and ComicBookPage are often identical. The same math obtains everywhere now.

                  From COMICHRON's FAQ explaining what it and isn't included in these estimates:

                  Q: What is NOT included in the Diamond monthly charts?

                  A: This is important, because it is a topic often misunderstood. Not included are:

                  • copies shipped outside the calendar month, including most reorders

                  • copies sold outside North America; the UK market often adds 10% or so

                  • copies sold outside the comics shop distribution network, such as on newsstands, in bookstores, or by postal subscription

                  • and anything digital. There is no source for digital sales figures.


                  The profitability of a DE comic book that sold 9000 copies (assuming that is the true total, or close to it) that retailers paid $2 to Diamond Comics for, would need to be estimated by taking those total sales to retailers at $2 (or $18,000 coming in to Diamond). Subtract Diamond's percentage for distributing each copy. Whatever's left after that, DE needs to pay its editor, writer, artist, and the printer (plus whatever they spent for advertising). Of course they did this beforehand, in hopes of making a profit by publishing the comic. At the end of the day, all those things being subtracted from the $18k that retailers collectively paid to Diamond, how much is left for DE to call "profit"?
                  Last edited by pulphero; 06-11-2014, 12:39 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    G'day,

                    I visited the Comichron website as you suggested. Most interesting was that the total comic book market for theUSA was about $517M. Compare that with the gross sale numbers for Captain America Winter Soldier from Mojo. United States aprox $255M world wide about $708M. Thats were the real money is so expect the books to be following the movies even more, at least with the big name stuff.

                    ta

                    Ralph


                    Originally posted by MajorHoy View Post
                    DC and Marvel are totally different creatures . . . bigger staffs, bigger expenses to run the company. They also have larger market penetration. They'd be more likely to cut a book due to lack of sufficient sales that other, smaller companies would consider to be doing well.

                    As I've tried to make clear . . . these are just Diamond's numbers, and I don't know how far beyond the mainland U.S. (and maybe into Canada?) they service. The numbers there also are STRICTLY what are ordered by comic book shops, so who knows how many of those are sold new to single customers and how many go into back-stock, or to customers buying multiple variant covers, etc.
                    As for what was #300, follow the link (http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/28603.html) and you'll see the Top 300 list, or follow this link (http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomi...4/2014-04.html) and go deeper to see where books like Battlestar Galactica #10, Kings Watch #5, Mark Waid Green Hornet #11, and others placed.

                    (These are also the April numbers . . . I'm not sure how soon May's numbers will be published, but I'd guess somewhere in the next few days.)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      There is no source for digital sales figures.
                      I really wish there was, and I find it odd that there isn't.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Captain Canuck View Post
                        I really wish there was, and I find it odd that there isn't.
                        Why should the publishers care / want that information known? They're not government agencies or anything . . . they only have to answer to shareholders.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Diamond is a lot like the Nielsen system, if you don't get your comics from Diamond than your orders don't count. The Comichron top sales charts don't take into account "Bob's Comics" and "Joe's baseball cards and comics" or other such places, only major shops and retailers who order from them. And they don't count digital. So if a book has orders of 10,000 I usually pad on another 2,000 for smaller shops and then another thousand for digital sales, but if it's a big title with 50,000 in orders I'll factor in about 4,000 for smaller shops and 4-5k for digital.
                          Dynamite Entertainment
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by comixfan1980 View Post
                            Diamond is a lot like the Nielsen system, if you don't get your comics from Diamond than your orders don't count. The Comichron top sales charts don't take into account "Bob's Comics" and "Joe's baseball cards and comics" or other such places, only major shops and retailers who order from them. And they don't count digital. So if a book has orders of 10,000 I usually pad on another 2,000 for smaller shops and then another thousand for digital sales, but if it's a big title with 50,000 in orders I'll factor in about 4,000 for smaller shops and 4-5k for digital.
                            But, who else besides Diamond services US comic book shops these days? I thought most other sources had closed shop by now, but I'm not involved with ordering or anything. (Use to help out at a small comic book shop chain, but that was last century.)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Regarding Diamond Comics, they are the only game in town, the sole survivor (of the multiple distributors that once existed in the 1980s and 1990s) distributing to the non-returnable 'direct market' system of comic book specialty shops. There still exists a distribution route by which comics are distributed through normal magazine vendors, but this is so relatively small today that it isn't considered to have much impact on the comics market as a whole (it IS important to *some* publishers though, like Archie Comics, whose majority of sales come from this distribution system). The other distribution route that is considered to have much more impact on comics sales in total, is distribution to retail bookstores (and online booksellers) -- primarily because it makes up a significant chunk of trade paperback and hardcover comics sales, where smaller total unit numbers make up a greater total dollar value on average, because of higher individual retail prices. Diamond Comics also distributes its product through this system, but the products available aren't exactly the same selection as those offered to the direct market. Diamond also doesn't have a monopoly on comics in this distribution market, the way they the do in the direct-market comic shop system.

                              Regarding why the publishers would want their proprietary sales information known to the public (specifically asked about digital comics), it doesn't seem to make sense that they would, but shouldn't this apply equally to print comics sales figures? This is why I question the whole concept of "estimated" sales figures given on sites like Comichron. Diamond makes the "Top Comics" rankings and "Market Share" relative percentages listings available to direct-market retailers for the purposes of assisting them in placing accurate orders (and to help them identify titles that they may potentially be UNDERordering). We have no reason to doubt these statistics as inaccurate. But sites like Comichron are claiming to have access to at least SOME of the publishers' ACTUAL sales numbers. They don't explain WHICH publishers, or HOW they come by this information, or WHY those sales figures are incomplete, and then must be ESTIMATED for the rest of the market statistics, using Diamond's market percentage rankings. Now if the Comichron site were to tell me that, for example, "We asked, and Marvel doesn't mind sharing their actual sales numbers with us. The other publishers weren't as cooperative.", then I can accept that basing your list of estimated sales numbers for other publishers on Marvel's ACTUAL sales numbers, which they've gotten directly from Marvel, and figuring the rest of the sales numbers for other publishers using Diamond's listing of relative market share for the same month as the actual reported sales is going to produce a fairly accurate estimation for the other publishers. On the other hand, they're not telling us this. If the answer to the question of "Where are you getting your sales information?" is something more along the lines of "Yeah, I know a guy at DC, and he told me that last April's Batman Zero Year crossover chapter sold 120,000 copies" and you're basing all of your calculations of Diamond's market shares using that one (how reliable?) comic sales statistic, then I'm a lot more skeptical about the accuracy of your list.
                              Last edited by pulphero; 06-11-2014, 05:02 PM.

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