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    Guest started a topic Owl tpb?

    Owl tpb?

    I keep looking to see if there will be an Owl tpb, yet have not come across an y information yet; have any other PSU fans on here heard or seen anything about this?

  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    It looks like Dynamite is finally going to be releasing a tpb collection for this four-issue series (originally published back in 2013).

    PROJECT SUPERPOWERS: THE OWL TRADE PAPERBACK
    Fear the shadows, the Owl has returned! Lost for fifty years in an ethereal limbo, the heroic adventurer of the 1940s has returned, cloaked in a winged costume and fueled by a fierce dedication to justice. In a violent and desperate modern world populated by strangers, having lost the woman he loved, will the Owl's body and spirit survive this frightening new reality... especially when a vicious new Owl Girl appears, staining his former partner's legacy in blood?
    Cover: Alex Ross
    Writer: J.T. Krul
    Art: Heubert Khan Michael, Alex Ross
    Rating: Teen +
    Format: Softcover
    Page Count: 104 pages
    U.S. Cover Price: $15.99
    ON SALE DATE: 1/11/2017
    ISBN-13: 978-1-5241-0238-8
    https://www.dynamite.com/htmlfiles/v...RO=C1524102385

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Reading back to the 2014 posts, I found the article below which might be of interest to those who are also curious about stats for digital sales.

    http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/05/comic...-flourish.html

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Wow.

    Three or four years after the demise of the original iteration of Project Superpowers, it looks like The Owl *may* finally get collected:

    https://www.amazon.com/Project-Super...s=the+owl+krul

    January 2017, 104 pages (which suggest the X-Mas special still remains uncollected).

    Personally I hope they get enough orders to publish it as it makes my PS re-reading easier.

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  • pulphero
    replied
    There is one source for information on sales that we know of. Publishers that carry outside advertising (which I believe is limited to Marvel and DC) have to make their circulation numbers known to potential advertisers through trade publications in order to attract those advertising dollars.

    There are a couple of things about using this as your source of sales figures though -- first, Marvel and DC don't report the sales of individual titles, they report the circulation of the entire line of comics that carry advertising (so that eliminates things like trade paperbacks, the ICON line, and other Marvel publications that *don't* carry paid, as opposed to in-house, ads), because ad space is sold through the entire line, not for individual titles. Second, it's to Marvel and DC's advantage in attracting paid advertisers to inflate that number a little bit, so the totals *might* also include the comics that don't carry ads, or the total number of copies printed (not the number that are actually purchased by retailers through their distributors). That number is also more than a little deceptive to the potential advertiser, because with the direct-market distribution system, it's not reflective of the number of potential READERS that those comics are reaching.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by pulphero View Post
    I think you missed the Major's point, Ralph. It's not that they don't care to keep track of these things for the business, it's more like why would they care to share that information with the public. It's literally none of their business.
    Exactly.

    Besides, depending on how low the numbers may be, companies may not want the general public to know that. It may discourage others from signing on to digital if they think it's going to go the way of the Betamax. (That's the video cassette system that lost out to VHS in the days of the wooly mammoths and Neanderthals.)

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  • pulphero
    replied
    Originally posted by ralphuniverse View Post
    G;day,

    They would be plain stupid if they didn't care. Big rule in business, measure everything. The only way to properly manage a business is to measurements of everything affecting your business as a minor change can have a dramatic effect on your profits.

    ta

    Ralph
    I think you missed the Major's point, Ralph. It's not that they don't care to keep track of these things for the business, it's more like why would they care to share that information with the public. It's literally none of their business.

    Leave a comment:


  • ralphuniverse
    replied
    G;day,

    They would be plain stupid if they didn't care. Big rule in business, measure everything. The only way to properly manage a business is to measurements of everything affecting your business as a minor change can have a dramatic effect on your profits.

    ta

    Ralph

    Originally posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Why should the publishers care / want that information known? They're not government agencies or anything . . . they only have to answer to shareholders.

    Leave a comment:


  • pulphero
    replied
    Regarding Diamond Comics, they are the only game in town, the sole survivor (of the multiple distributors that once existed in the 1980s and 1990s) distributing to the non-returnable 'direct market' system of comic book specialty shops. There still exists a distribution route by which comics are distributed through normal magazine vendors, but this is so relatively small today that it isn't considered to have much impact on the comics market as a whole (it IS important to *some* publishers though, like Archie Comics, whose majority of sales come from this distribution system). The other distribution route that is considered to have much more impact on comics sales in total, is distribution to retail bookstores (and online booksellers) -- primarily because it makes up a significant chunk of trade paperback and hardcover comics sales, where smaller total unit numbers make up a greater total dollar value on average, because of higher individual retail prices. Diamond Comics also distributes its product through this system, but the products available aren't exactly the same selection as those offered to the direct market. Diamond also doesn't have a monopoly on comics in this distribution market, the way they the do in the direct-market comic shop system.

    Regarding why the publishers would want their proprietary sales information known to the public (specifically asked about digital comics), it doesn't seem to make sense that they would, but shouldn't this apply equally to print comics sales figures? This is why I question the whole concept of "estimated" sales figures given on sites like Comichron. Diamond makes the "Top Comics" rankings and "Market Share" relative percentages listings available to direct-market retailers for the purposes of assisting them in placing accurate orders (and to help them identify titles that they may potentially be UNDERordering). We have no reason to doubt these statistics as inaccurate. But sites like Comichron are claiming to have access to at least SOME of the publishers' ACTUAL sales numbers. They don't explain WHICH publishers, or HOW they come by this information, or WHY those sales figures are incomplete, and then must be ESTIMATED for the rest of the market statistics, using Diamond's market percentage rankings. Now if the Comichron site were to tell me that, for example, "We asked, and Marvel doesn't mind sharing their actual sales numbers with us. The other publishers weren't as cooperative.", then I can accept that basing your list of estimated sales numbers for other publishers on Marvel's ACTUAL sales numbers, which they've gotten directly from Marvel, and figuring the rest of the sales numbers for other publishers using Diamond's listing of relative market share for the same month as the actual reported sales is going to produce a fairly accurate estimation for the other publishers. On the other hand, they're not telling us this. If the answer to the question of "Where are you getting your sales information?" is something more along the lines of "Yeah, I know a guy at DC, and he told me that last April's Batman Zero Year crossover chapter sold 120,000 copies" and you're basing all of your calculations of Diamond's market shares using that one (how reliable?) comic sales statistic, then I'm a lot more skeptical about the accuracy of your list.
    Last edited by pulphero; 06-11-2014, 05:02 PM.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by comixfan1980 View Post
    Diamond is a lot like the Nielsen system, if you don't get your comics from Diamond than your orders don't count. The Comichron top sales charts don't take into account "Bob's Comics" and "Joe's baseball cards and comics" or other such places, only major shops and retailers who order from them. And they don't count digital. So if a book has orders of 10,000 I usually pad on another 2,000 for smaller shops and then another thousand for digital sales, but if it's a big title with 50,000 in orders I'll factor in about 4,000 for smaller shops and 4-5k for digital.
    But, who else besides Diamond services US comic book shops these days? I thought most other sources had closed shop by now, but I'm not involved with ordering or anything. (Use to help out at a small comic book shop chain, but that was last century.)

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  • comixfan1980
    replied
    Diamond is a lot like the Nielsen system, if you don't get your comics from Diamond than your orders don't count. The Comichron top sales charts don't take into account "Bob's Comics" and "Joe's baseball cards and comics" or other such places, only major shops and retailers who order from them. And they don't count digital. So if a book has orders of 10,000 I usually pad on another 2,000 for smaller shops and then another thousand for digital sales, but if it's a big title with 50,000 in orders I'll factor in about 4,000 for smaller shops and 4-5k for digital.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Captain Canuck View Post
    I really wish there was, and I find it odd that there isn't.
    Why should the publishers care / want that information known? They're not government agencies or anything . . . they only have to answer to shareholders.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    There is no source for digital sales figures.
    I really wish there was, and I find it odd that there isn't.

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  • ralphuniverse
    replied
    G'day,

    I visited the Comichron website as you suggested. Most interesting was that the total comic book market for theUSA was about $517M. Compare that with the gross sale numbers for Captain America Winter Soldier from Mojo. United States aprox $255M world wide about $708M. Thats were the real money is so expect the books to be following the movies even more, at least with the big name stuff.

    ta

    Ralph


    Originally posted by MajorHoy View Post
    DC and Marvel are totally different creatures . . . bigger staffs, bigger expenses to run the company. They also have larger market penetration. They'd be more likely to cut a book due to lack of sufficient sales that other, smaller companies would consider to be doing well.

    As I've tried to make clear . . . these are just Diamond's numbers, and I don't know how far beyond the mainland U.S. (and maybe into Canada?) they service. The numbers there also are STRICTLY what are ordered by comic book shops, so who knows how many of those are sold new to single customers and how many go into back-stock, or to customers buying multiple variant covers, etc.
    As for what was #300, follow the link (http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/28603.html) and you'll see the Top 300 list, or follow this link (http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomi...4/2014-04.html) and go deeper to see where books like Battlestar Galactica #10, Kings Watch #5, Mark Waid Green Hornet #11, and others placed.

    (These are also the April numbers . . . I'm not sure how soon May's numbers will be published, but I'd guess somewhere in the next few days.)

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  • pulphero
    replied
    No, they're not Diamond's numbers. They're someone's estimated calculation, based on the information Diamond DOES provide: Sales Rank in dollar shares and unit shares. Those numbers are a PERCENTAGE based on 2 factors: the total number of units and retail dollars for that month, and the total number of units and dollars of the best-selling comic book that month. Diamond does not tell you that they sold X number of copies of Batman that month. When Diamond gives you "unit shares", they are not giving you the actual number of issues of Batman they sold. The estimated calculation is only going to be as accurate as the KNOWN (or assumed to be correctly known) quantity (in dollars or units) that the people doing the estimation plug into one of those percentages to "reverse engineer" the rest of Diamond's "shares" into REAL numbers.

    From COMICHRON's FAQ regarding how the estimates are calculated:


    Q: How does Comichron derive the actual sales figures?

    A: The same way everyone else did for years: with reports from one or more publishers on what they actually sold to distributors, the entire chart can be unlocked. I began my monthly decoding of the charts in September 1996, and have been working to gather the information needed to figure out earlier months.

    This needs explaining in more detail. How is it that COMICHRON has access to these reports (usually considered proprietary business information by the publishers)? And if they DO have these reports from the publisher giving actual numbers of copies, then why not tell us which of these numbers is confirmed as real, and which merely estimated from Diamond's percentage shares? And if the reports are giving the publishers' figures for "what they sold to Diamond", and Diamond's sales charts are based on what Diamond "sold to retailers" in any given month, are we to assume Diamond's warehouses are emptied of all copies of any title and issue number listed on the sales chart (i.e. Diamond turns over 100% of the monthly comics sold to them by publishers to its retail clients by the time it publishes its monthly sales charts?) This can't be right, as some issues of some comic books "shipped sold out" on the day of release (no standing stock in the warehouse) while other issues of comic books are available "in stock" for re-order for many months.

    Q: How accurate are the sales estimates?

    A: Before February 2003, Diamond was reporting preorders, and in that era, the margin of error was higher. I used a basket of publishers' actual sales figures to derive a likely estimate for the Order Index Numbers — and found that there was significant variance because the publishers did not get their purchase orders at the same time relative to the moment Diamond calculated its charts. But after that date, Diamond switched to reporting final orders — and while that meant that the charts came out later than they did in the preorder days, suddenly, all the variance between publishers' reports vanished. This is why estimates computed by Comichron, ICV2, and ComicBookPage are often identical. The same math obtains everywhere now.

    From COMICHRON's FAQ explaining what it and isn't included in these estimates:

    Q: What is NOT included in the Diamond monthly charts?

    A: This is important, because it is a topic often misunderstood. Not included are:

    • copies shipped outside the calendar month, including most reorders

    • copies sold outside North America; the UK market often adds 10% or so

    • copies sold outside the comics shop distribution network, such as on newsstands, in bookstores, or by postal subscription

    • and anything digital. There is no source for digital sales figures.


    The profitability of a DE comic book that sold 9000 copies (assuming that is the true total, or close to it) that retailers paid $2 to Diamond Comics for, would need to be estimated by taking those total sales to retailers at $2 (or $18,000 coming in to Diamond). Subtract Diamond's percentage for distributing each copy. Whatever's left after that, DE needs to pay its editor, writer, artist, and the printer (plus whatever they spent for advertising). Of course they did this beforehand, in hopes of making a profit by publishing the comic. At the end of the day, all those things being subtracted from the $18k that retailers collectively paid to Diamond, how much is left for DE to call "profit"?
    Last edited by pulphero; 06-11-2014, 12:39 AM.

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