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  • Ghornet2
    started a topic Blackcross

    Blackcross

    Read issue 1 and I'm not that thrilled.

    Art was okay, to gritty for me but really not that bad.

    The story seemed to have little (probably nothing) to do with what came before so I'm guessing a reboot. Not much seemed to happen. There was very little to grab my interest. I'll be back next issue but I'm not sure past there.

  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Of all the public domain characters out there, Magno, what you a fan of that one specifically?

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by positronic View Post
    When publishers attempt to resurrect these public domain characters, you need to take into account practical considerations from the standpoint of the publisher. Both PSP and TERRA OBSCURA took public domain GA characters and altered them in ways that made their specific versions of those characters unique and copyright-able for the respective publishers. If either series had just taken the same public domain characters and made no changes to them whatsoever, and either series had turned out to be successful and popular, that would have just enabled other publishers to cash in by publishing their own titles featuring those same public domain characters, in effect benefiting from the work that Dynamite or America's Best Comics put into the characters. It's just good business to protect your own interests as a publisher by making these characters your own.
    Thanks for the explanation. All the more understandable.

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  • pulphero
    replied
    Originally posted by Captain Canuck View Post
    Good explanation. I tend to refer to the example Nick used once in an interview: You can do Dracula, you just can't do Bela Lugosi.
    Unless of course, you actually have a license from the Lugosi estate. Bela's name and likeness are not public domain (although, I guess if used in biographical format, it would be considered fair use). Monsterverse LLC published 4 issues of BELA LUGOSI'S TALES FROM THE GRAVE, in which Bela takes the part of the classic comic book horror host. I highly recommend these if you can find them. Dark Horse also published a licensed comic book adaptation of the Universal film Dracula, among other licensed Universal Monsters film adaptation which they did.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Good explanation. I tend to refer to the example Nick used once in an interview: You can do Dracula, you just can't do Bela Lugosi.

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  • positronic
    replied
    Originally posted by Magno View Post
    On a related note, --- does anyone know about the 'rules' of writing some of these heroes who are in the public domain. ???

    Can one just take the hero or heroes and continue their adventures on .... from the already published stories.??

    Why did Alex Ross have to make little changes of Black Terror to return him to comics.???
    Why couldn't Ross have portrayed Black Terror just as he had appeared in the '40's ... with the same background he had in EXCITING and BLACK TERROR books.??
    When publishers attempt to resurrect these public domain characters, you need to take into account practical considerations from the standpoint of the publisher. Both PSP and TERRA OBSCURA took public domain GA characters and altered them in ways that made their specific versions of those characters unique and copyright-able for the respective publishers. If either series had just taken the same public domain characters and made no changes to them whatsoever, and either series had turned out to be successful and popular, that would have just enabled other publishers to cash in by publishing their own titles featuring those same public domain characters, in effect benefiting from the work that Dynamite or America's Best Comics put into the characters. It's just good business to protect your own interests as a publisher by making these characters your own.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by positronic View Post
    Both Marvel and DC are owned by huge media corporations with deep pockets, and their comic lines have both just experienced one of the worst slumps ever. DC is recovering slightly since its 'Rebirth' relaunch in September, but Marvel sales are still the worst in years.

    I hate to say it, but you're seriously out of touch if you think Alan Moore's going to save PSP - or anybody, for that matter. He's retired from comics. The last thing he wrote was the third (of three) NEMO original graphic novels which came out in March 2015, and was a sequel to THE LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN. Even then, he was going back on his earlier statement that he'd retired from comics after TLOEG II. I guess he only did it as a favor for Kevin O'Neill, whom he enjoyed working with. NEMO, however, had underwhelming sales. Alan Moore just doesn't have clout any more. They can still sell WATCHMEN and SWAMP THING reprints, but that's about it. Marvel thought they'd have a huge hit with it's reprints of MIRACLEMAN, but by the time they'd dragged their feet long enough, worked out all the details, and released the comic, sales were tepid at best. The comics mainstream has moved on. Besides, why would Moore even be interested in working on someone else's characters after all these years?

    Frank Miller's DARK KNIGHT III isn't doing all that great, either. The mainstream has moved on, and the old 80's icons just don't have the sales clout they used to. Frank Quitely is still doing all right, currently working with Mark Millar drawing his JUPITER'S LEGACY series. Once these guys move into creator-owned comics, there's little incentive for them to come back to sharecropping on company-owned characters until their careers begin to fade -- and then they'd have to work on Batman or one of the major iconic characters.
    Yeah, I must be a little out of touch if I thought Alan Moore would step in and try to save Project Superpowers. I thought he still might have some cachet in the marketplace. And I only mentioned both he and Quitely as big draws.
    I only wanted to suggest two big names that would draw potential readers to Project Superpowers that would actually make the title 'work'.
    It sounds like 'HEROKILLERS' might not be the trick, either.
    So, I was 'browsing' for possible writer/artist teams that would produce the kind of PS book some of us would like to see.

    On a related note, --- does anyone know about the 'rules' of writing some of these heroes who are in the public domain. ???

    Can one just take the hero or heroes and continue their adventures on .... from the already published stories.??

    Why did Alex Ross have to make little changes of Black Terror to return him to comics.???
    Why couldn't Ross have portrayed Black Terror just as he had appeared in the '40's ... with the same background he had in EXCITING and BLACK TERROR books.??

    Leave a comment:


  • positronic
    replied
    Originally posted by Magno View Post
    Damn.
    Well, I can't find fault with any of your logic....

    but is there ANY way you think it would 'work'.??

    How about a group book of Nedor heroes written by Alan Moore and illustrated by ... say ... Frank Quitely??
    With a low print order on cheap paper until the book would find an audience and good 'numbers'. ... say by issue #4.??

    I guess I'm asking.... do you think there is ANY way the PSP would work??

    DC and Marvel do it on a monthly basis.... but Dynamite can't find a way in???
    Both Marvel and DC are owned by huge media corporations with deep pockets, and their comic lines have both just experienced one of the worst slumps ever. DC is recovering slightly since its 'Rebirth' relaunch in September, but Marvel sales are still the worst in years.

    I hate to say it, but you're seriously out of touch if you think Alan Moore's going to save PSP - or anybody, for that matter. He's retired from comics. The last thing he wrote was the third (of three) NEMO original graphic novels which came out in March 2015, and was a sequel to THE LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN. Even then, he was going back on his earlier statement that he'd retired from comics after TLOEG II. I guess he only did it as a favor for Kevin O'Neill, whom he enjoyed working with. NEMO, however, had underwhelming sales. Alan Moore just doesn't have clout any more. They can still sell WATCHMEN and SWAMP THING reprints, but that's about it. Marvel thought they'd have a huge hit with it's reprints of MIRACLEMAN, but by the time they'd dragged their feet long enough, worked out all the details, and released the comic, sales were tepid at best. The comics mainstream has moved on. Besides, why would Moore even be interested in working on someone else's characters after all these years?

    Frank Miller's DARK KNIGHT III isn't doing all that great, either. The mainstream has moved on, and the old 80's icons just don't have the sales clout they used to. Frank Quitely is still doing all right, currently working with Mark Millar drawing his JUPITER'S LEGACY series. Once these guys move into creator-owned comics, there's little incentive for them to come back to sharecropping on company-owned characters until their careers begin to fade -- and then they'd have to work on Batman or one of the major iconic characters.
    Last edited by positronic; 03-10-2017, 07:31 AM.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Magno View Post
    Yes, ABC's TERRA OBSCURA was a good project that made those characters 'work' ...
    I really like that series.

    It CAN be done.
    Maybe Dynamite should hire those writers and artists to take another 'crack' at the Nedor Heroes.... give Black Terror the lead... and build the other characters around him.
    Updating them from their Golden Age persona needs to be done.... and it can ... in the right hands ... succeed. (I think.) ...

    I'll say it again and again... if Dynamite will only hire the 'right' writer and artist ... and give us good quality stories.... it could succeed .!!

    And with the success of one book... another and another could be built on top of it.

    But it's a visual medium ... and it needs an artist that can give us dynamic pages we can 'wow' over ... and a story that's exciting to read ... and reread.
    There's a publisher up here called Chapterhouse. They've taken the old Captain Canuck characters from the mid 70s and given them a jolt of modern that was desperately needed.

    They started with an ongoing for the Captain but encountered scheduling issues (sound familiar, Dynamite fans?). Their approach has changed as a result. They are now issuing two 4-issue limited series at a time that run simultaneously. And those two books are part of their larger universe. Either it is about a specific member of the Canuck supporting cast, or it'll at least take place in the same world but be only marginally connected (at least for now). They mix established and little-known talent on the creative teams.

    I'd like to see Dynamite try something like that, using my Black Terror example from earlier. Then maybe a mini about Masquerade and a team-up book for four issues. Then Green Lama gets his turn and say, a sidekicks book. Whatever. It keeps the whole PS universe moving, doesn't demand a huge commitment from fans, and if a book sells poorly, it's only four issues anyway.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Yes, ABC's TERRA OBSCURA was a good project that made those characters 'work' ...
    I really like that series.

    It CAN be done.
    Maybe Dynamite should hire those writers and artists to take another 'crack' at the Nedor Heroes.... give Black Terror the lead... and build the other characters around him.
    Updating them from their Golden Age persona needs to be done.... and it can ... in the right hands ... succeed. (I think.) ...

    I'll say it again and again... if Dynamite will only hire the 'right' writer and artist ... and give us good quality stories.... it could succeed .!!

    And with the success of one book... another and another could be built on top of it.

    But it's a visual medium ... and it needs an artist that can give us dynamic pages we can 'wow' over ... and a story that's exciting to read ... and reread.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Magno View Post
    I guess I'm asking.... do you think there is ANY way the PSP would work??
    It might depend on your definition of "work". Dark Horse had a Captain Midnight series for a couple of years. If that qualifies, I think it can be done.

    I think they might want to use Black Terror as their central character. He doesn't come off as outdated and/or goofy as some other characters might nowadays. I think he can still be marketable without being completely re-designed to the point that fans of books from that era don't recognize him. Hydro and Pyroman, maybe not so much. But you can guest-star some of those characters.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Pulp hero is right.....

    Damn.
    Well, I can't find fault with any of your logic....

    but is there ANY way you think it would 'work'.??

    How about a group book of Nedor heroes written by Alan Moore and illustrated by ... say ... Frank Quitely??
    With a low print order on cheap paper until the book would find an audience and good 'numbers'. ... say by issue #4.??

    I guess I'm asking.... do you think there is ANY way the PSP would work??

    DC and Marvel do it on a monthly basis.... but Dynamite can't find a way in???

    Leave a comment:


  • pulphero
    replied
    Originally posted by Captain Canuck View Post
    But I also think that if someone came up with a pitch that Nick thought had potential for any of those characters, individually or as a group, he would pursue it. Like he did with Blackcross.
    It might have worked if handled something more like ABC's TERRA OBSCURA, but the Ellis version effectively ceased to be a superhero genre comic, which is the only reason anyone would be interested in PSP in the first place. That goes doubly so for anyone knowledgeable enough about superhero genre history to even be familiar with the PSP characters. BLACKCROSS seemed to try to appeal to two different audiences that were poles apart in their genre tastes, and so wound up pleasing no one.

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  • pulphero
    replied
    Try to look at it this way, Magno. If you want a snapshot or a cross-section of the core LCS consumer demographic whose tastes determine what succeeds or fails in the current comic book marketplace, it's readers who began reading comics in the early 2000s. Or to a lesser, but still significant extent, readers who began reading comics in the 1990s. That's as far back as those readers' memories of, or nostalgia for, comic book history extends. I'm talking about readers who have subscriptions with their LCS, or otherwise preorder their comics, who buy a dozen or more titles a month regularly, who are in the comic shop on a weekly basis. They are the determiners of mainstream reading tastes in comics today.

    The number of readers out there still reading new comics who began reading in the 1960s, 1970s, or even the 1980s is diminishing all the time. Those readers are burning out or dropping out, or becoming exclusively readers/collectors of back issues or reprints. The styles of comic art and writing found in today's comics by and large don't appeal to them. Not enough to warrant a trip to the comic shop every week -- not even every month, or to maintain the effort necessary to scan solicitations and preorder their comics. And the "Wednesday Warriors", to use the vernacular, are those people that your friendly neighborhood comics retailer is totally dependent on to keep him in business. He doesn't have time to stock even 2 or 3 copies of the hundreds of titles being published every month, and let them sit on his shelves for one to three months, in the hopes that some guy will wander in and buy them. If a comic is not sold by a month after it's released, it's dead wood, and it's draining his already strained resources. And believe me, saying a month or three is generous. If we're being honest, more than half those retailers probably can't afford to have comics sitting on their shelves between one and three WEEKS.

    So everything that the retailer does when guesstimating his preorders on each month's Diamond Previews catalog is based on what he knows about those Wednesday Warriors' ordering patterns, and their tastes in comics. That's the only reason some of these shops are still in business. If one guy comes in and asks the retailer if he has the newest Dynamite series featuring some old-time character, and that guy isn't a big spender who comes in at least monthly, he's not going to bother ordering it. Maybe if he gets five or six requests, he'll remember to order it. But guess what? The older guys who like those older characters, they're likely to be finicky sorts who only like a few comics that most other readers won't bother with, for the most part -- they're not big spenders, nor are they always the type who spend all their comic budget with one store. If there's more than one store in the area, an older guy may buy one or two comics here, one or two there.

    Pullbox subscriptions are hardly worth the work involved for the retailer if the subscriber only gets a few books a month (even more so if the retailer offers a standing discount to subscribers). Special orders issue-by-issue are a pain to fill and keep track of, when the retailer sees a customer only asking for a couple of titles. He's only willing to provide that service if it encourages a customer to buy more titles, and buy all of his comics at that retailer's store, as opposed to his competitor's store in the city a few miles away. Ideally he'd like 20 subscribers that get 20 titles a week, not 200 subscribers that get 2 titles a week, and only one or two customers want the same titles, because the more different titles and subscribers, the bigger the headache it is to order and fill those subs. Oh, and I forgot that you have to multiply those hundreds of titles published every month by 2, since most of them are available now with at least one variant cover.

    It's about to get a lot worse for people like us who like the old comic book characters, though. We are sitting on the crest of the wave of new readers who have been seeping into the mainstream demographic of comic shop consumers, younger still newbie fans who have only recently caught the comics buzz in the last 5 years or so. They are those people who are just discovering comicons, the fans of cosplay, videogaming, and mainstream blockbuster superhero and sci-fi movies who are gravitating towards comics as a source medium because of a perceived hipness. I guess you can use your imagination and think about what they might feel about the "hipness" of Golden Age comics and superheroes who are older than their great-grandparents. World War 2? Wasn't that, like, way back in the 1950s or something?? At the moment, those slightly older fans who started reading in the early 2000s and 1990s far outweigh them in consumer purchasing power, because they have more stable and better paying jobs, and there's also a tendency for a lot of those newbies to go straight to digital.
    Last edited by pulphero; 02-03-2017, 04:17 PM.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    I think a 3rd volume of the original Project Superpower...project... is dead. I doubt we'll ever see any of the stories hinted at on the last pages of volume two ever take shape. That's dead.

    But I also think that if someone came up with a pitch that Nick thought had potential for any of those characters, individually or as a group, he would pursue it. Like he did with Blackcross.

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