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"FROM THE PAGES OF...PROJECT SUPERPOWERS COMES HERO KILLERS"

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  • #31
    With a wait ... and a hope....

    Well, ... HEROKILLERS has arrived. Yeah, Daredevil talks... and I'll try to find the bright spots .... for me.
    One of the bright spots ... was that I could see so many of the Project SP heroes again.
    I loved seeing them again ... even though they were depicted so 'tongue-in-cheekly' ...

    Really glad to see them on a comic book page.

    Ok. That's all I've got. It was great to see so many of them again. The Original Daredevil, The Face, Skyman, Black Terror and Tim, Green Lama, (I think I saw) Magno (one of my favorites), The Liberator, Pyroman, Woman in Red, Masquerade, Thirteen, Green Mask, Vulcan, Captain Courageous, Catman and Kitten, The Super-American, Marvelo, Amazing Man, Blue Beetle and Sparky, The Eagle, Captain Battle and Captain Battle, Jr., Brad Spencer- Wonderman, ..was it U.S. Jones... and The Owl ... and a few others made me smile again.

    And just hope again ... that the Project SP heroes return ....

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Ghornet2 View Post
      In one of the pages we've seen Daredevil talks.
      Just because he doesn't have anything to say most of the time, doesn't mean he can't talk.
      Last edited by pulphero; 05-04-2017, 09:53 AM.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Ghornet2 View Post
        I really enjoyed the original 2 Superpowers series and the other connected Mini's. But now I've all but given up on it. This new series has nothing to do with the original, it just happens to be the same group of heroes. In one of the pages we've seen Daredevil talks.
        Yeah, just reading the writer's commentary and it doesn't seem like they'll be too detail-oriented in that sense. Since it *really* doesn't have much to do with those characters specifically anyway, or even what Dynamite has done with them so far, they may as dress Daredevil in orange and green stripes, for all that it matters.

        It does sound as though the art is quirky good. But "drunk Black Terror"? Pass...

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        • #34
          I liked it for what it was, not for what it wasn't. Call it a parallel universe if you want to, doesn't matter. The other PSP universe isn't going anywhere one way or another.
          DE pull list: Will Eisner's The Spirit: The Corpse Makers, ERB's The Greatest Adventure, Green Hornet '66 Meets The Spirit, PSP: Herokillers, KISS/Vampirella, Mighty Mouse

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          • #35
            Originally posted by positronic View Post
            I liked it for what it was, not for what it wasn't. Call it a parallel universe if you want to, doesn't matter. The other PSP universe isn't going anywhere one way or another.
            You are right, Positronic... but why?? Why are you right??

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            • #36
              I guess at this point it feels like you can either accept it or reject it on principle or as a matter of taste; it's your choice. But regardless, doing so doesn't seem to practically affect anyone here getting one iota closer to any sort of continuation of the original PSP story, or moving it in the direction of styles of comics that ceased to be popular some decades ago now.

              What I seem to be hearing is that people commenting here want a re-iteration of PSP to move in a serious retro direction, but honestly, when I look at what's out there (and what is able to survive) in today's comic book marketplace, it just doesn't feel like a realistic possibility. Maybe if you're publishing comics on the level of say, AC Comics, but that's moving down the scale for DE. The world sometimes just refuses to conform to our wants and desires. It is what it is, because the economics of publishing print comic books is mandated by the rule of numbers... and that means that other people's dislikes and likes affect the products that are (or are not) made available for you and me to buy, limiting our choices. Marvel and DC had largely moved on beyond the styles of comics storytelling & art (and characters) that many of us older readers liked many years ago, and now that's rolling downhill to the smaller publishers as well.
              DE pull list: Will Eisner's The Spirit: The Corpse Makers, ERB's The Greatest Adventure, Green Hornet '66 Meets The Spirit, PSP: Herokillers, KISS/Vampirella, Mighty Mouse

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              • #37
                Originally posted by positronic View Post
                What I seem to be hearing is that people commenting here want a re-iteration of PSP to move in a serious retro direction, but honestly, when I look at what's out there (and what is able to survive) in today's comic book marketplace, it just doesn't feel like a realistic possibility.
                I'm not sure about retro. I want something similar to what was published circa 2009.

                I understand the argument that NOT supporting this is no help towards having the Superpowers universe revived. However I'm not sure what message supporting it would send? That I want more of the goofy, comedic versions of these characters? Because the truth is I don't. And I'm not going to buy a product that doesn't appeal to me in the least to send a message that is not the one I want sent.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Captain Canuck View Post
                  I'm not sure about retro. I want something similar to what was published circa 2009.
                  2009 is retro. It's almost a decade ago. You can't sell some of the kinds of comics that sold in 2009 today, never mind the kind of comics that didn't even sell all that well in 2009 (like PSP). You could rifle through all the titles and characters DC and Marvel published a decade ago, and come up with a sizable list of them that you won't be seeing again, that the comics consumers of today have no desire (by and large) to see again.

                  No one should buy any comic book they don't like, but that's part of the problem. Be clear that not buying what you don't like isn't going to lead to what you do like being published. The basic problem is that there just aren't enough buyers out there supporting comic books featuring Golden Age comics characters (and of course I'm talking about those characters whose publishing history didn't continue for decades), and even fewer supporting comic books featuring Golden Age characters that aren't DC or Marvel characters. They aren't buying them because they just don't care about some old characters from the 1940s, and nothing's going to convince them otherwise. Comic books like that are already basically retro by definition, regardless of the storytelling style.

                  It was possible to revive characters 20 years old in the 1960s, or 30 or 40 years old in the 1970s, but it's getting harder all the time, and the age of the revived character is trending downwards. It was possible to revive the JSA circa the beginning of the new millennium, but only because DC readers had long memories and greater loyalty, and the JSA had been around at least as recently as the 1980s (about 15 years earlier) -- but a lot has changed in the comic book marketplace since then.

                  Maybe making fun of those retro characters is all that's left for them... or if not, then there may be nothing left for them. Even if it were possible to get the hottest creators on the planet working on PSP, it might not make a difference. That book would automatically be consigned to being one of the worst-selling things they'd ever work on, just because of the characters, just because it's published by Dynamite.
                  Last edited by pulphero; 05-16-2017, 11:16 PM.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by pulphero View Post
                    2009 is retro. It's almost a decade ago. You can't sell some of the kinds of comics that sold in 2009 today, never mind the kind of comics that didn't even sell all that well in 2009 (like PSP). You could rifle through all the titles and characters DC and Marvel published a decade ago, and come up with a sizable list of them that you won't be seeing again, that the comics consumers of today have no desire (by and large) to see again.
                    Except PSP did sell well initially. The first issue to fall out of the top 100 (at 101) was #7 with over 27,000 copies. This is right around the time that the series hit its standard tardiness. That book, and its spinoffs, outsold titles that Dynamite is still publishing, Red Sonja in particular. I think, at the time, only The Boys sold better for Dynamite.

                    This is why I find it hard to believe that they can't give these characters a sort of Green Hornet treatment. An occasional mini-series, team-up, etc. I'm not suggesting making them the focus of your line necessarily. And not EVERY character. Some are better known and/or marketable than others. But SOMETHING.
                    Last edited by Captain Canuck; 05-17-2017, 12:11 PM.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Captain Canuck View Post
                      Except PSP did sell well initially. The first issue to fall out of the top 100 (at 101) was #7 with over 27,000 copies. This is right around the time that the series hit its standard tardiness. That book, and its spinoffs, outsold titles that Dynamite is still publishing, Red Sonja in particular. I think, at the time, only The Boys sold better for Dynamite.
                      In 2009 DE published PSP Chapter Two, which started out good with 31k sold, but that was a special $1-priced #0 issue. By issue #12 (Sept. 2010), sales of Ch2 were down below 10k. Still better than some other DE series at the time, even if it was helped by multiple cover variants, and pretty good sales by 2017 standards for DE -- but almost everything sells worse now. PSP was a more-expensive than average series for DE too, so how much of those numbers translated to profit is hard to say.

                      At any rate, there has to be some reason they didn't continue publishing PSP after Chapter Two ended (except for a one-shot Xmas Special and the much-later Owl miniseries). What do you think the reason was? I suspect the gap in time between the first series of PSP and now resulted in a lot of those older hardcore fans of GA characters largely retiring from actively purchasing new comics, while the younger but less-committed buyers who tried the first series slowly eroded over the next couple of years. Maybe some of the older GA fans just like reading free GA comics over at the Digital Comic Museum now.

                      Don't forget those licensed properties like Green Hornet work somewhat differently; there's a "use it or lose it" factor in effect (that never seemed to bother Dark Horse, but maybe now they're paying for that mistake).
                      Last edited by pulphero; 05-18-2017, 10:23 AM.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by pulphero View Post
                        At any rate, there has to be some reason they didn't continue publishing PSP after Chapter Two ended (except for a one-shot Xmas Special and the much-later Owl miniseries). What do you think the reason was? I suspect the gap in time between the first series of PSP and now resulted in a lot of those older hardcore fans of GA characters largely retiring from actively purchasing new comics, while the younger but less-committed buyers who tried the first series slowly eroded over the next couple of years. Maybe some of the older GA fans just like reading free GA comics over at the Digital Comic Museum now.

                        Don't forget those licensed properties like Green Hornet work somewhat differently; there's a "use it or lose it" factor in effect (that never seemed to bother Dark Horse, but maybe now they're paying for that mistake).
                        Good edit about licensed properties because truth be told, I was indeed going to overlook that.

                        I think the lack of interest is more on the creative side. We've heard a few times that Dynamite has approached creators to ask them which of their toys they'd like to play with. To be honest, as much as I'm banging the table about Project Superpowers, I'd sooner have a go at The Black Bat Or The Green Hornet than most of those characters.

                        In the interview copied earlier in this thread, the book's writer said he was contacted by Dynamite specifically to create a dark humour book, I suppose to offset Blackcross. So maybe Dynamite agrees more with you than with me and they feel that the standard superhero book is a lost cause (or unable to stand out). Or they can't find anyone interested in taking any of those characters on.

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                        • #42
                          Solicitation for #4:

                          PROJECT SUPERPOWERS: HERO KILLERS #4
                          Cover A: Pete Woods Cover B: Ryan Browne Writer: Ryan Browne Art: Pete Woods

                          “You know what’s cool? Being a superhero. You know what’s cooler than cool? Killing anyone in my way that makes me seem like less of a super cool superhero and tries to make me look like the chump that my former boss used to make me out to be, but I sure showed him when I deathrayed him and now who is the big man super hero? I am! That’s who! And everyone likes me! And if someone doesn’t, I will karate chop them so hard, they will change the word karate to Tim!!!” – Excerpt from Tim’s daily affirmation

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                          • #43
                            Golden Age heroes ... and a sterling approach

                            One of the books I pick up now is BLACK HAMMER.!!
                            Golden Age or Silver Age heroes with a bit of Drama ... and good writing.

                            Another Character I pick up is ...LOBSTER JOHNSON...a period piece set in the 1930's.

                            Then, there's the tpb book by Jeff Deischer... MYSTICO... THE GOLDEN AGE, VOLUME II.

                            Writing ... and comic book heroes that are handled... I think, quite well. I think the heroes--- the PSP heroes ... could be handled as well in a series. Not ALL of them thrown into a book... I've never advocated for that.... but one set of heroes to set the Foundation for more ...later.

                            The Black Terror and all of his friends from that line could be broached ... and just that bunch could be THE HEROES ... out of the Gate.

                            A different take on the Terra Obscura Group... and just them. Black Terror, Tim, the American Crusader, The Fighting Yank, Doc Strange, Pyroman, The Scarab, The Ghost, The Liberator, Miss Masque, Mystico, The Grim Reaper, ... and tell a story like Black Hammer that makes our heroes interesting ... and worth reading.

                            A writer that can capture day's audience and loves super-heroes ... and an artist that can make the series beautiful to look at ... would be the 'essentials'.

                            I 'believe' ... it can still be done.!!

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                            • #44
                              When and if they can get great numbers ... and be hitting the monthly deadline... and not failing....
                              Maybe, then, spin a popular character or two out of that group.
                              When those two or three books hit 'good numbers' ... and can appear on a regular monthly ... or bi-monthly basis ...

                              Then, maybe turn to another Group ... like the ACE COMICS ...HEROES.
                              Magno, Lash Lightning, The Raven, The Unknown Soldier, Vulcan, Captain Courageous, ...etc. could be conceived.

                              Or, Daredevil, Crimebuster, Iron Jaw, The Claw... and that bunch.... whenever.
                              Treat each group of heroes like their own 'separate world'... and make the 'cross-overs' a Special Annual Event.

                              It's important that the first Group (the Nedor Heroes) maintain their place in big numbers and they continue to be 'selling through'.

                              I think the only thing that is missing is the 'vision' to make it all 'work.'

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Magno View Post
                                One of the books I pick up now is BLACK HAMMER.!!
                                Golden Age or Silver Age heroes with a bit of Drama ... and good writing.

                                Another Character I pick up is ...LOBSTER JOHNSON...a period piece set in the 1930's.

                                I 'believe' ... it can still be done.!!
                                Yet barely anyone seems to be able to accomplish it. Both Black Hammer and Lobster Johnson are creator-owned titles, and they are rarer than hen's teeth in being superhero titles (of a sort, I guess) that are making it in this marketplace -- but maybe it's only worth the effort those creative teams put into them because it IS a creator-owned title. And maybe if you are Robert Kirkman or Mike Mignola or someone on that level of popularity, you can draw an audience for a non-Marvel/non-DC superhero title. Maybe DE should have asked Jeff Lemire, before he created his own book!!

                                Don't forget that Dark Horse tried launching a line of company-owned superhero characters not once, but twice... and ultimately failed both times. More recently, Archie Comics tried it with their 'Dark Circle' line... also not making it.

                                Image's Invincible, Spawn, Witchblade, and Savage Dragon continue to eke along, but they are not big sellers. Meanwhile, Rob Liefeld can't seem to get a relaunch of Youngblood to actually gain an audience. (I've lost count of which number relaunch/reboot he's on now.) AND these are books by the original Image founders that were million+ sellers a mere 25 ago!! As for Valiant Comics... are those even superhero titles? It's hard for me to recognize them as such. Either way... there's still a little nostalgia for the comics of 25 years ago, not so much for the comics of 75 years ago.

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