Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

"FROM THE PAGES OF...PROJECT SUPERPOWERS COMES HERO KILLERS"

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • pulphero
    replied
    Originally posted by Captain Canuck View Post
    Sure, something like that. What, the existence of those books now means that any use of those characters is suddenly some sort of theft? I didn't even have them in mind when I wrote that, it's just the most obvious way of going about it, *if* that's you want to do. Dynamite's Great Lakes Avengers.

    Point being, if the intent is to spoof the golden age, as Positronic speculated, a story in which sidekicks murder the adult superheroes doesn't really accomplish that because it doesn't tie in directly to the golden age. At most, it might poke fun at how gigantic superhero universes are nowadays ("In a town where everyone is a superhero...") but that's not golden-age-specific either. If you want to spoof the golden age, find traits specific to the golden age to make fun of.

    So I don't think Hero Killers has that (being golden age parody) as a goal, honestly.
    But isn't the whole sidekick thing one of the key identifying Golden Age superhero tropes? I admit it works as well for the Silver Age. But that limits it to comics published in two separate periods lasting more or less about a decade each, both of them "a long long time ago in a comicbook far far away". In either decade the trope is representative of a more naive and simple time which is often held up as the object of ridicule.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by pulphero View Post
    So basically just riffing off those books THE LEAGUE OF REGRETTABLE SUPERHEROES by Jon Morris, and SUPER WEIRD HEROES: OUTRAGEOUS BUT REAL! edited by Craig Yoe?
    Sure, something like that. What, the existence of those books now means that any use of those characters is suddenly some sort of theft? I didn't even have them in mind when I wrote that, it's just the most obvious way of going about it, *if* that's you want to do. Dynamite's Great Lakes Avengers.

    Point being, if the intent is to spoof the golden age, as Positronic speculated, a story in which sidekicks murder the adult superheroes doesn't really accomplish that because it doesn't tie in directly to the golden age. At most, it might poke fun at how gigantic superhero universes are nowadays ("In a town where everyone is a superhero...") but that's not golden-age-specific either. If you want to spoof the golden age, find traits specific to the golden age to make fun of.

    So I don't think Hero Killers has that (being golden age parody) as a goal, honestly.
    Last edited by Captain Canuck; 04-11-2017, 12:42 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • pulphero
    replied
    Originally posted by Captain Canuck View Post
    As a separate point, if I felt the need or desire for some reason to take a poke at the golden age (either because I hate it or done with a certain affection) I would create a team from some of the more bizarre characters at the time that have not had the lasting power of a Black Terror or Miss Masque. I recall first coming across The Green Turtle here a few years ago and laughing out loud at how ridiculous that was.

    The first Canadian superhero "was amphibious, indestructible, and had superhuman strength with which he could make great leaps and punch through steel". Basically, he was Namor the Sub-Mariner. Yet presumably because of his strength he was named Iron Man, which is about as lousy a name as you could come up with for an AMPHIBIOUS character.

    There's plenty of room for humour there. I just don't see it with Hero Killers.
    So basically just riffing off those books THE LEAGUE OF REGRETTABLE SUPERHEROES by Jon Morris, and SUPER WEIRD HEROES: OUTRAGEOUS BUT REAL! edited by Craig Yoe?

    Leave a comment:


  • pulphero
    replied
    Originally posted by Captain Canuck View Post
    I can. Or at least pulp style books. They're few and far between, comparatively, so you get them when you can, if you're a fan.
    Well, I read Image's AIRBOY borrowed. But I still haven't bought a copy of the TPB. I have really conflicted feelings about that one, so I might wait until I see it in the 50c boxes. Something about that struck me as far more offensive to purists than what Hero Killers looks like it's doing... but I guess I'll find out.

    I'd think any old-school fan who could swallow Image's version of Airboy shouldn't have a problem with Hero Killers.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    As a separate point, if I felt the need or desire for some reason to take a poke at the golden age (either because I hate it or done with a certain affection) I would create a team from some of the more bizarre characters at the time that have not had the lasting power of a Black Terror or Miss Masque. I recall first coming across The Green Turtle here a few years ago and laughing out loud at how ridiculous that was.

    The first Canadian superhero "was amphibious, indestructible, and had superhuman strength with which he could make great leaps and punch through steel". Basically, he was Namor the Sub-Mariner. Yet presumably because of his strength he was named Iron Man, which is about as lousy a name as you could come up with for an AMPHIBIOUS character.

    There's plenty of room for humour there. I just don't see it with Hero Killers.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by positronic View Post
    Or Image's AIRBOY, from last year -- I can't believe most of the people buying that were old-school Airboy fans from the 1980s.
    I can. Or at least pulp style books. They're few and far between, comparatively, so you get them when you can, if you're a fan. I'd compare it to the folks here who continued to buy Red Sonja even though it sucked and they knew it would likely continue to for a while. Egads, man, I bought Lobdell's Alpha Flight!

    I can visualize the type of behavior you describe better when the parody is based on something divisive. Your example of Image books is a great one. That style had its passionate supporters and detractors. I could totally see those who hated it enjoying having it ridiculed.

    But I don't think that applies to golden age, public domain and/or pulp characters. Not everyone enjoys them, certainly, but I don't know that there's a strong enough dislike or disdain for them for a project intended to poke fun at them to really connect with anyone.

    And it doesn't even really seem geared to make fun of the golden age anyway. It just uses some characters from the time. The book "set in a town where everyoneís a superhero and the old guard arenít retiring to make way for the next generation, so the up-and-coming heroes decide to do something about it."

    You could write that book with DC's Titans or any number of current youth teams. The Champions or New Warriors waiting for the established team to finally get lost. It doesn't seem like the humour is really based on the golden age at all.

    But you're right, no matter how poorly thought out it seems to me, you don't know until you publish it. Maybe of all the stuff that gets thrown at the wall, this manages to stick.

    Leave a comment:


  • positronic
    replied
    Originally posted by Captain Canuck View Post
    Right. If there's no audience for the characters themselves, how can there be an audience for caricatures of them? I suppose SOME recognition is better than attempting it with completely new characters who have NO recognition. But if you're trying to give yourself a small boost that way, then at least use the characters in the way in which they're known.

    I don't see new readers being drawn to this, and I don't see fans of the golden age appreciating the characters being used that way, even if it's just the sidekicks.
    No, I don't really think it matters that much. My assumption would be that you don't really need to know, just have a general sense of what's being satirized here is Golden Age superhero comics. Things like Brat Pack or Marshal Law aren't dependent on the reader being able to identify specific characters in them as one-to-one analogs of some pre-existing character, either. I'd say you don't need to ever have read a Black Terror story, or know anything about the character, beyond just recognizing him in a general way as a product of the Golden Age superhero genre. Sort of like in the 1990s in Justice League you had that whole thing going on where the book was more or less an ongoing satire already, but then Giffen & DeMatteis threw in General Glory, to poke fun at the whole upright squeaky-clean 'old-school' superhero archetype. Or Image's AIRBOY, from last year -- I can't believe most of the people buying that were old-school Airboy fans from the 1980s.

    As to whether new readers would be "drawn to it"? Well, that's another question, determined by whether the reader has some prior leaning towards comic books that satirize tropes of the superhero genre, or maybe just likes a satirical-type comic book story in the generic sense. Lord knows there have been scads of superhero parodies done down through the decades, beginning with MAD, and not all of them have been really specifically-targeted, either. Heck, you could go all the way back to Supersnipe or Plastic Man in the more generic sense, not to mention the occasional one-off episodes of a lot comic books. Maybe the ideal target audience here is people that already think Golden Age comic book characters were whack -- you could hate Image superheroes in the 1990s, and refuse to ever read one, and still get one of the many comics satirizing the "hyperviolent superhero excess" tropes of the early Image comics. Maybe some reader who enjoyed things like Garth Ennis' The Boys, which satirized superheroes as a genre, but didn't feature a lot of very specific parodies of characters. Not without its inherent risks, but I guess you don't discover that until you try publishing something.
    Last edited by positronic; 04-08-2017, 04:55 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by positronic View Post
    If a viable audience existed for a 'straight' PSP comic book, then HERO KILLERS would not have come into existence in the first place.

    ...That said, I don't know if an audience for the Hero Killers type of satirical PSP comic exists either
    Right. If there's no audience for the characters themselves, how can there be an audience for caricatures of them? I suppose SOME recognition is better than attempting it with completely new characters who have NO recognition. But if you're trying to give yourself a small boost that way, then at least use the characters in the way in which they're known.

    I don't see new readers being drawn to this, and I don't see fans of the golden age appreciating the characters being used that way, even if it's just the sidekicks.

    Leave a comment:


  • positronic
    replied
    Originally posted by Magno View Post
    Yes, that editing button doesn't work well. Thanks for your posts.
    You can right-click on "Edit Post" and select "Open in new tab" and the editing function will work.

    Leave a comment:


  • positronic
    replied
    Can you like superhero comics, yet still like a comic book about superheroes written & drawn by creators who (it seems fair to say) might have diametrically-opposed feelings than your own about superheroes?

    Sure, why not?

    MARSHAL LAW was a great, fun comic, "taking the piss out of" superheroes. It's fair to say that creators Pat Mills & Kevin O'Neill may not see quite eye-to-eye with me with respect to their attitude towards superheroes. In the end it's just a comic book, though. The most important question at the end of the day to me is "But was it a good comic?", not "But was it respectful towards the superhero genre?"

    Now, I may get pissed at Marvel Comics for what they're doing to their core superheroes, but that's an entirely different deal. Why? Because the existence of Captain AmeriHydra is effectively cock-blocking the existence of a potentially viable "classic" Captain America comic book. It's not that the audience for a classic Captain America comic book somehow ceased to exist, or never existed in the first place. That, in a nutshell, is the difference between a Marvel comic like Captain America and Dynamite's Project Superpowers. If a viable audience existed for a 'straight' PSP comic book, then HERO KILLERS would not have come into existence in the first place. There's no conflict here for me in being able to enjoy both a straight and a satirical version of PSP, assuming that Hero Killers turns out to be good comic, irrespective of whether it's the PSP comic a minority of consumers would like to buy. That said, I don't know if an audience for the Hero Killers type of satirical PSP comic exists either, but I guess Dynamite and everyone else will discover that at the same time. The superhero genre is a tough row to hoe for any publishers apart from Marvel and DC.
    Last edited by positronic; 04-03-2017, 06:48 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Captain Canuck View Post
    Correction, that was Woods who claimed to "love" these characters, although he spoke for Browne who admitted earlier that he wasn't familiar with them.

    I would have just edited my post but evidently that function doesn't work any better than the image-posting feature does. This forum somehow manages to be a bigger mess than Dynamite's comics line.
    Yes, that editing button doesn't work well. Thanks for your posts.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Correction, that was Woods who claimed to "love" these characters, although he spoke for Browne who admitted earlier that he wasn't familiar with them.

    I would have just edited my post but evidently that function doesn't work any better than the image-posting feature does. This forum somehow manages to be a bigger mess than Dynamite's comics line.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Browne went from "I wasnít super familiar with this cast of folksy superheroes from yesteryear..." to "we love these characters and respect their histories" in the space of however many minutes it took to complete this interview. You'll have to pardon my skepticism.

    He might as well have answered that last question with "Yeah, but they can all go f### themselves, we're going to do what we feel like." At least that would have sounded more authentic.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Ahead of the release of Project Superpowers: Hero Killers #1, ComicsAlliance chatted to Browne and Woods about their take on beloved characters and their influences in applying satirical tropes to an established superhero universe.

    ComicsAlliance: Firstly, I have to ask, did Dynamite come to you and suggest a send-up of its Project Superpowers line, or is it the kind of story youíve been looking for a home for?

    Ryan Browne: Matt Idelson at Dynamite was looking to do something darkly humorous with Project Superpowers as a 180 to the way the line was produced before. Iíve known him for a little while, and he is a fan of God Hates Astronauts (which happens to be a darkly humorous superhero book) so he reached out to me to see if Iíd be interested in pitching something using those characters. I wasnít super familiar with this cast of folksy superheroes from yesteryear, but these characters did seem to have an inherent silliness about them which is something I love to play off of with darkly serious stories. so I did a little bit of research and came up with something reasonably off-color ó thinking that it might not go over well ó but Dynamite was all about it!

    Pete Woods: Iíve known Matt Idelson for almost as long as Iíve been working in comics. When he contacted me about trying something at Dynamite in the Project Superpowers universe I figured that it would be something a little off-kilter. When he suggested Ryan as writer I was sure of it.

    CA: Is there a different sense of appeal in using established Golden Age heroes and subverting them for a story like this, as opposed to designing and making up your own heroes to lampoon?

    RB: A lot of the jokes are already there with how goofy some of these characters are. It really was a lot easier than starting from scratchĖ and most of their personalities are completely different from how the characters were portrayed before. I think of it as sort of an alternate reality to what youíve seen in previous Project Superpowers. Like a What If? or an Elseworlds thing.

    PW: When doing something like this itís difficult to communicate the type of humor weíre going for with brand new characters. Thereís a history and a sense of propriety that comes as part of the package. That gives you a lot more to play off.

    CA: What can you tell us about the three would-be heroes that decide they want to get into the cape and cowl business?

    RB: When I think of dark humor, I think of Coen Brothers films. So I set that up as my template ó seemingly innocent characters that see an easy chance at fame and fortune and immediately get in over their heads. Drastic solutions to overwhelming problems. that end up just causing more problems. That sounds like a job for three wholesome, all-American sidekicks! Sidekicks are inherently nonsensical so this was just an easy layup to find the comedy in their desperation.

    CA: Visually, does the series follow Alex Rossí lead established in Project Superpowers, but with your own spin or have you re-interpreted the characters to suit your style?

    RB: Pete has a wonderful, clean-line style that gives this book a unique look. As for the design decisions on the world and the heroes uniforms, I left it entirely up to Pete. I always prefer that when I am drawing a book and I think Pete agreed.

    PW: I have a great deal of respect for what Alex did with these characters and the time and energy he invested in them. That said, Iím not Alex. I donít want to try and emulate what he is a master of. I went back to the original designs and for the most part decided to run with those. I wanted to keep the characters in these sometimes outlandish costumes and have them live in a world where thatís not seen as weird.

    CA: Have you two been looking for a project to work on together for a while, or did Dynamite match you up due to similar sensibilities?

    RB: Iíd been a big fan of Peteís work for many many years but I had never met him. It was really Matt Idelson that brought us together to make sweet comic magic.

    PW: Matt has a great sense of who would work well together. While Ryan and I have never met, I think our sensibilities mesh really well.

    CA: Superhero comics often have hardcore fanbases, even with characters you might not expect. Are you expecting any pushback, or have you received any, from die-hard fans of, say, The Black Terror?

    RB: Just with the nature of comedy, this is going to be a polarizing book. I think that has to be accepted by anyone who works in humor. My hope is that old fans will be open to some humor in a universe that is usually told in a serious fashion and that we bring in a whole new audience to the universe that has never heard of The Black Terror.

    PW: No matter what you do there are always people who think youíve done something you shouldnít have. As Ryan said, thatís the nature of comedy, but I also think itís the nature of most entertainment. Whenever you do something that pushes characters out of the status quo people react. I hope that in the end readers realize that we love these characters and respect their histories. Weíre just trying to tell a fun story and maybe get more people interested in these gems.

    Preview material here: http://comicsalliance.com/brown-wood...ers-interview/

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    The hilarity continues in June.

    PROJECT SUPERPOWERS: HERO KILLERS #2
    Cover A: Pete Woods Cover B: Ryan Browne Writer: Ryan Browne Art: Pete Woods

    Oh man oh man oh man! Okay! Everybody cool out! We just need a second here and we will figure this out. Or not. I donít know. Tim and the gang messed up pretty big and Iím not sure how they are going to handle it. And not just them. How are the superheroes gonna deal with this? Captain Battle doesnít seem too easy goingÖnot with a name like CAPTAIN BATTLE! Letís just think about this logically. Maybe Sparky, Captain Battle Jr., and Tim can turn this monumental screw-up to their advantage. I mean, they have a lot of inside information and maybe a town without crime isnít so great after allÖ

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X