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"FROM THE PAGES OF...PROJECT SUPERPOWERS COMES HERO KILLERS"

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest started a topic "FROM THE PAGES OF...PROJECT SUPERPOWERS COMES HERO KILLERS"

    "FROM THE PAGES OF...PROJECT SUPERPOWERS COMES HERO KILLERS"

    Good news, Project Superpowers is returning!

    Bad news, Dynamite is reinventing the wheel again!

    https://www.dynamicforces.com/htmlfi...DFN02221781201

    ...Dynamite welcomes aboard the incredible team of Ryan Browne (God Hates Astronauts) and Pete Wood (Robin, Deadpool), two creators who dare to deliver an altogether unexpected, satirical take on the classic superhero mythos with Project Superpowers: Hero Killers.

    Welcome to Libertyville, USA... home to too damn many superheroes! When all crime is soon eradicated, a handful of heroes leave for greener pastures, but most stay for the affordable housing, hoping to rise to the top and become the legendary hero who saved the world's greatest metropolis. Captain Battle Jr., Sparky, and an unfortunate crime-fighter named Tim try to stand out, but it's hard to do in a city full of capes stopping every misdemeanor with a spandex-wrapped flourish. Things get weird when these three lad companions try to get to the criminals before their bosses do!

    Ryan Brown says, "These ain't your great-great-granddaddy's superheroes... unless your great-great-granddaddy is super-cool and has a wonderful sense of humor. Then these actually are your great-great-granddaddy's superheroes."

    "We're taking characters and concepts that have been around since the beginning of comics and turning them upside down," says Pete Woods. "This is going to be a fun ride for the readers and the creators alike. I'm having a blast."

    "One of the things we pride ourselves on with Project Superpowers is the ability to bing in top creators and give them the ability to tell exactly the kind of superhero story that suits their tastes," says Dynamite CEO and publisher, Nick Barrucci. "When Ryan and Pete came up with a story to poke fun at superhero tropes with a witty take on the genre, we thought, 'Why not put it in the context our own universe for something wholly original?' This series is guaranteed to entertain any fan of superpowered storylines!"

    "Taking a storied property and looking at it in a completely different way is always exciting, and doing it from a truly demented perspective is what helps me get out of bed in the morning. I'm up!" says Matt Idelson, Senior Editor.

    Project Superpowers: Hero Killers #1 will be solicited in Diamond Comic Distributors' March 2017Previews catalog, the premier source of merchandise for the comic book specialty market, and slated for release in May. Comic book fans are encouraged to reserve copies with their local comic book retailers. Project Superpowers: Hero Killers will also be available for individual customer purchase through digital platforms courtesy of Comixology, Dynamite Digital, iVerse, and Dark Horse Digital.
    None for me, thanks. If you want to have a look at the covers, click on the link above.

  • MajorHoy
    replied
    By the way, if anybody is interested, it looks like a tpb collection of PROJECT SUPERPOWERS: HERO KILLERS will be available later this month. (Previewsworld currently lists it as "In Shops: Jan 24, 2018".)

    http://www.dynamite.com/htmlfiles/vi...RO=C1524105295

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  • positronic
    replied
    Originally posted by Magno View Post
    [/B]
    Well, then... if not 'nostalgia' ... write them to satisfy today's audience. Maybe they won't notice. LOL!!
    Believe it or don't, but I'm pretty sure that's what the editor of Archie's Dark Circle line thought he was doing, by turning the Black Hood into a drug-addicted, Punisher-style antihero (complete with 'mature readers' language), gender-swapping a classic Shield for a woman with a completely rebooted origin story, etc.

    Yeah whatever, we've already seen it done, and seen it done much better by more talented creators. So they hire a writer like Duane Swiczieski, who's already written the Punisher, and whose X over at Dark Horse (an extremely similar character) couldn't get any marketplace traction, and why would they think a Black Hood remodeled in the same vein by the same writer would do any better?

    Marvel or DC can sometimes get away with radical revamps like that (at least for a little while), but only because there are a number of baseline readers invested in their respective universes.

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  • positronic
    replied
    Originally posted by Magno View Post
    Yes. I fear that may be the biggest problem. Without those 'deep pockets' it's harder to compete.
    I always thought Archie would have a little more money because of those Archie titles... and have a little 'extra' money to hire some 'good help'.
    It doesn't look that way when they would hire Seigel and Reinman. (???)

    Something is going on at Archie ... and DE ... for that matter, ... that I just don't understand.
    Before you dismiss Siegel & Reinman's "Mighty Comics" work, it's helpful to understand what was going on in comic book publishing in 1964/1965. Jerry was once again pursuing legal action to obtain some rights as the creator of Superman, so his work dried up at DC. He briefly tried out as a writer for Stan Lee, but things didn't work out, so Marvel was out for him too. Many of the adults who had been working for years in the comic book industry just couldn't "get" what it was about the resurgence of the superhero genre in the early Silver Age, and what Marvel, in particular, was doing that was grabbing the young adult readers. This was the era of "pop art" and "camp", so a middle-age adult like Jerry viewing Marvel's comics saw something quite different than the young fans did. There seemed to be this POV like "They can't be taking this stuff seriously, can they?", and probably just focusing on Stan Lee's flippant dialogue, the melodramatic slugfests, etc., they probably saw it as ironic, self-parodying. Siegel was by no means the only one. Just look at some of DC's titles from around that same time, stuff like Arnold Drake's DOOM PATROL, or Bob Haney's METAMORPHO or TEEN TITANS. Or series like ECLIPSO or PRINCE RA-MAN, the revived PLASTIC MAN... all kinds of weird stuff DC was publishing in response to Marvel's increasing market share. Later Jerry revived THE OWL (2 issues) for Gold Key/Western. And how about the line of superheroes Joe Simon edited for Harvey Comics? All that stuff was absolutely cast from the same mold as Jerry Siegel's SHADOW, FLY-MAN, or MIGHTY CRUSADERS. And Reinman had not only worked on the Golden Age iterations of the MLJ characters, he'd recently been one of Jack Kirby's major inkers over at Marvel just a couple years prior, so he probably seemed like the best qualified candidate the company could get. ACP's editors knew superheroes were a risky venture for them, and they probably thought it was just another fad that would last a few more years before fading, so they weren't going to sink some serious bank into luring writers or artists away from the competition by offering better page rates. With 20/20 hindsight, sure they should have taken the superhero genre more seriously, but things probably looked a lot different from their perspective in 1965.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Desperate times....

    Originally posted by pulphero View Post
    I thought ACP had a pretty good start in THE NEW CRUSADERS, back when it was still Red Circle, and that Dean Haspiel & Mark Waid's THE FOX was in some ways even better -- just a tremendous fun comic book.

    Obviously the marketplace disagreed with me, so then ACP decided to take a sharp turn into a "Dark" place. That seems to have grabbed a little curiosity value when it was first hyped, but it petered out pretty fast with all the delays in publishing, and now it indeed seems like they're just spinning their wheels, going around in "Circles". Someone at ACP sure seems committed to trying to stick it out, despite a collective yawn from marketplace.

    Another thing that occurs to me is that some publishers just have an uphill battle in terms of trying to live down the kinds of comics they published in the past... they are automatically dismissed or not taken seriously by a vast percentage of consumers, just based on what they've published for years before. That applies to both Archie Comics and Dynamite Entertainment.

    It's just not a level playing field. Companies like DE can't afford to compete for talent with the deeper pockets of bigger publishers, which is why it's going to be hard to get the big name creators to both write and draw. And for DE, maybe even the upper-mid-level creators.
    Yes. I fear that may be the biggest problem. Without those 'deep pockets' it's harder to compete.
    I always thought Archie would have a little more money because of those Archie titles... and have a little 'extra' money to hire some 'good help'.
    It doesn't look that way when they would hire Seigel and Reinman. (???)

    Something is going on at Archie ... and DE ... for that matter, ... that I just don't understand.

    I would even go for,--- in my desperation of times--- Roy Thomas and ... Steve Butler.
    Steve Butler has a fun style ... and I think DE could get him. (Afford him.)
    Steve could use a little experience.
    I would think you get get both for ... not much money.

    I think Roy would like to write again. And he loves the Golden Age stuff. Especially, around WWII.

    Or ... there might be others..... maybe... maybe Eric Larsen would walk away from the Savage Dragon ... for a chance to take a crack at the NEDOR HEROES!!

    Anyway, ... I would think they would be trying to find somebody ..... with a 'fun style' .... and a writer who knew what he was doing.
    But nothing is happening except this 'Killer' book.
    If you were there, wouldn't you have figured out something by now!!???
    I would have been constantly reaching out or searching ....
    ... because, to me..... a super-hero title or two is the core of any successful comic company.

    I think you're right about most of the other stuff, too. The Fox was fun ... for too short a period.
    I was hoping it would lead to bigger things. (Crest fallen again.)

    The Archie 'Dark' stuff ... was disappointing. A female Shield ... a different Black Hood ... just a 'miss' all around.
    I twittered them ... saying that the MLJ heroes would kick that editor's ass.
    Of course, they kicked me off twitter.

    I still think there is 'juice' in those MLJ heroes, .... as well as the DE Golden Age heroes... I just still don't get it. (I'm slow.)
    Last edited by Magno; 06-16-2017, 12:38 AM.

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  • pulphero
    replied
    I thought ACP had a pretty good start in THE NEW CRUSADERS, back when it was still Red Circle, and that Dean Haspiel & Mark Waid's THE FOX was in some ways even better -- just a tremendous fun comic book.

    Obviously the marketplace disagreed with me, so then ACP decided to take a sharp turn into a "Dark" place. That seems to have grabbed a little curiosity value when it was first hyped, but it petered out pretty fast with all the delays in publishing, and now it indeed seems like they're just spinning their wheels, going around in "Circles". Someone at ACP sure seems committed to trying to stick it out, despite a collective yawn from marketplace.

    Another thing that occurs to me is that some publishers just have an uphill battle in terms of trying to live down the kinds of comics they published in the past... they are automatically dismissed or not taken seriously by a vast percentage of consumers, just based on what they've published for years before. That applies to both Archie Comics and Dynamite Entertainment.

    It's just not a level playing field. Companies like DE can't afford to compete for talent with the deeper pockets of bigger publishers, which is why it's going to be hard to get the big name creators to both write and draw. And for DE, maybe even the upper-mid-level creators.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Archie doesn't return the MLJ characters....

    Oh, ... and the Dark Circle at Archie....!!??

    Why?? Why do they do that... when they have the MLJ heroes to bring back.??

    I've argued for the Return of The Mighty Crusaders...
    They've got great heroes in The Shield, The Wizard, Black Hood, Steel Sterling, ... and some of the other MLJ heroes.

    Instead, ... they go 'dark'. Such a disappointment.
    Such a 'waste'.
    Much like DE.!!
    To have the heroes ... and not make them 'work' ... is 'such a waste'.

    I wonder what would have happened if Archie Adventure Series would have tried to keep Simon and Kirby on The Fly and The Shield ... and bring in The Black Hood, Fly-Girl ... and others for The Crusaders.
    Or if they had put a very good writer and artist on The Mighty Crusaders ... instead of Jerry Siegel and Paul Reinman.

    Archie/Red Circle could have established a 'Foundation' to build on .... ( one of my favorite messages) and could have continued to bring a more quality product to the fans.

    This way, EVERYTHING is on shaky ground.!! And it will be harder to build a fan base ... for either Red Circle.... or DE's PSP.!!
    Last edited by Magno; 06-15-2017, 07:19 PM.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Only with the Right team can we succeed....!!

    Originally posted by pulphero View Post
    Yet barely anyone seems to be able to accomplish it. Both Black Hammer and Lobster Johnson are creator-owned titles, and they are rarer than hen's teeth in being superhero titles (of a sort, I guess) that are making it in this marketplace -- but maybe it's only worth the effort those creative teams put into them because it IS a creator-owned title. And maybe if you are Robert Kirkman or Mike Mignola or someone on that level of popularity, you can draw an audience for a non-Marvel/non-DC superhero title. Maybe DE should have asked Jeff Lemire, before he created his own book!!


    "Rarer than hen's teeth"... indeed.!! ...And maybe they succeed because they ARE creator-owned titles. But someone on that Level of popularity was what I had argued for in the past ... and I thought you guys shot down the idea. (I think I argued for people like Alan Moore as writer and Quietly as artist... not that that would ever happen.)
    Alex Ross once said he would like to work with Moore someday. Alex has done some GREAT covers for Dynamite.... and if somebody had ... whatever it takes... to speak with Moore about possibly working with Ross .... [ All I'm saying is that with the right approach -- somebody COULD bring a good writer and a good artist together to bring back these heroes. Maybe not Alan Moore (who said he still wants to do one more comic series) ... and maybe not Alex Ross ... but these Golden Age Heroes still have some 'juice' ... and with the RIGHT writer and the RIGHT artist ... it could work.

    Terra Obscura was a pretty good series with the NEDOR HEROES... that 'worked'. And Yanick Paquette wasn't really a 'household name' then.
    (Although I don't know the numbers.)

    Again, ... all I'm saying is that IF handled right, ... and with the RIGHT creative team... these Golden Age Heroes could be successful again.
    Lemire could have used ANY of these Golden Age hero groups and his title, BLACK HAMMER, would have been just as successful. (For my money, even more so.)

    ...and maybe DE 'SHOULD' have asked Jeff Lemire to write a series before "he created his own book."

    So, why wasn't that done.??
    DE has the characters ... they HAD one of THEE best(if not the best) cover artists ... Alex Ross for the series... but didn't get a writer .... and didn't get an artist to make it work.
    Two out of four doesn't cut it.

    You NEED that writer that can get today's audience engaged.
    You NEED that artist that can draw some great pictures to capture today's audience visually.
    DE can't ... or they don't 'get it'.

    I'm sorry ... but the writing for PSP was like a 'first draft' .... and a good editor could have, should have, fixed it.


    Don't forget that Dark Horse tried launching a line of company-owned superhero characters not once, but twice... and ultimately failed both times. More recently, Archie Comics tried it with their 'Dark Circle' line... also not making it.

    Yes, Dark Horse did launch a line of company-owned superhero characters ... twice... but the way they did it .... well, to me, .... looked like they were bound to fail ... both times.
    They should have had a different 'roll-out' !! The heroes were pretty bland.!! IT all looked messy... too messy ... to get involved in.

    Image's Invincible, Spawn, Witchblade, and Savage Dragon continue to eke along, but they are not big sellers. Meanwhile, Rob Liefeld can't seem to get a relaunch of Youngblood to actually gain an audience. (I've lost count of which number relaunch/reboot he's on now.) AND these are books by the original Image founders that were million+ sellers a mere 25 ago!! As for Valiant Comics... are those even superhero titles? It's hard for me to recognize them as such.
    Yeah, I don't get it, either.!!
    I hoped Larsen would, instead of Savage Dragon, do some of the Golden Age heroes ...as an on-going ... which I would have bought. He has a fun style ... but I'm not a Savage Dragon fan.
    The others I just don't get!!

    Either way... there's still a little nostalgia for the comics of 25 years ago, not so much for the comics of 75 years ago.


    Well, then... if not 'nostalgia' ... write them to satisfy today's audience. Maybe they won't notice. LOL!!
    Last edited by Magno; 06-15-2017, 06:57 PM. Reason: wrong words used: passed for past...

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  • pulphero
    replied
    Originally posted by Magno View Post
    One of the books I pick up now is BLACK HAMMER.!!
    Golden Age or Silver Age heroes with a bit of Drama ... and good writing.

    Another Character I pick up is ...LOBSTER JOHNSON...a period piece set in the 1930's.

    I 'believe' ... it can still be done.!!
    Yet barely anyone seems to be able to accomplish it. Both Black Hammer and Lobster Johnson are creator-owned titles, and they are rarer than hen's teeth in being superhero titles (of a sort, I guess) that are making it in this marketplace -- but maybe it's only worth the effort those creative teams put into them because it IS a creator-owned title. And maybe if you are Robert Kirkman or Mike Mignola or someone on that level of popularity, you can draw an audience for a non-Marvel/non-DC superhero title. Maybe DE should have asked Jeff Lemire, before he created his own book!!

    Don't forget that Dark Horse tried launching a line of company-owned superhero characters not once, but twice... and ultimately failed both times. More recently, Archie Comics tried it with their 'Dark Circle' line... also not making it.

    Image's Invincible, Spawn, Witchblade, and Savage Dragon continue to eke along, but they are not big sellers. Meanwhile, Rob Liefeld can't seem to get a relaunch of Youngblood to actually gain an audience. (I've lost count of which number relaunch/reboot he's on now.) AND these are books by the original Image founders that were million+ sellers a mere 25 ago!! As for Valiant Comics... are those even superhero titles? It's hard for me to recognize them as such. Either way... there's still a little nostalgia for the comics of 25 years ago, not so much for the comics of 75 years ago.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    When and if they can get great numbers ... and be hitting the monthly deadline... and not failing....
    Maybe, then, spin a popular character or two out of that group.
    When those two or three books hit 'good numbers' ... and can appear on a regular monthly ... or bi-monthly basis ...

    Then, maybe turn to another Group ... like the ACE COMICS ...HEROES.
    Magno, Lash Lightning, The Raven, The Unknown Soldier, Vulcan, Captain Courageous, ...etc. could be conceived.

    Or, Daredevil, Crimebuster, Iron Jaw, The Claw... and that bunch.... whenever.
    Treat each group of heroes like their own 'separate world'... and make the 'cross-overs' a Special Annual Event.

    It's important that the first Group (the Nedor Heroes) maintain their place in big numbers and they continue to be 'selling through'.

    I think the only thing that is missing is the 'vision' to make it all 'work.'

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Golden Age heroes ... and a sterling approach

    One of the books I pick up now is BLACK HAMMER.!!
    Golden Age or Silver Age heroes with a bit of Drama ... and good writing.

    Another Character I pick up is ...LOBSTER JOHNSON...a period piece set in the 1930's.

    Then, there's the tpb book by Jeff Deischer... MYSTICO... THE GOLDEN AGE, VOLUME II.

    Writing ... and comic book heroes that are handled... I think, quite well. I think the heroes--- the PSP heroes ... could be handled as well in a series. Not ALL of them thrown into a book... I've never advocated for that.... but one set of heroes to set the Foundation for more ...later.

    The Black Terror and all of his friends from that line could be broached ... and just that bunch could be THE HEROES ... out of the Gate.

    A different take on the Terra Obscura Group... and just them. Black Terror, Tim, the American Crusader, The Fighting Yank, Doc Strange, Pyroman, The Scarab, The Ghost, The Liberator, Miss Masque, Mystico, The Grim Reaper, ... and tell a story like Black Hammer that makes our heroes interesting ... and worth reading.

    A writer that can capture day's audience and loves super-heroes ... and an artist that can make the series beautiful to look at ... would be the 'essentials'.

    I 'believe' ... it can still be done.!!

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Solicitation for #4:

    PROJECT SUPERPOWERS: HERO KILLERS #4
    Cover A: Pete Woods Cover B: Ryan Browne Writer: Ryan Browne Art: Pete Woods

    “You know what’s cool? Being a superhero. You know what’s cooler than cool? Killing anyone in my way that makes me seem like less of a super cool superhero and tries to make me look like the chump that my former boss used to make me out to be, but I sure showed him when I deathrayed him and now who is the big man super hero? I am! That’s who! And everyone likes me! And if someone doesn’t, I will karate chop them so hard, they will change the word karate to Tim!!!” – Excerpt from Tim’s daily affirmation

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by pulphero View Post
    At any rate, there has to be some reason they didn't continue publishing PSP after Chapter Two ended (except for a one-shot Xmas Special and the much-later Owl miniseries). What do you think the reason was? I suspect the gap in time between the first series of PSP and now resulted in a lot of those older hardcore fans of GA characters largely retiring from actively purchasing new comics, while the younger but less-committed buyers who tried the first series slowly eroded over the next couple of years. Maybe some of the older GA fans just like reading free GA comics over at the Digital Comic Museum now.

    Don't forget those licensed properties like Green Hornet work somewhat differently; there's a "use it or lose it" factor in effect (that never seemed to bother Dark Horse, but maybe now they're paying for that mistake).
    Good edit about licensed properties because truth be told, I was indeed going to overlook that.

    I think the lack of interest is more on the creative side. We've heard a few times that Dynamite has approached creators to ask them which of their toys they'd like to play with. To be honest, as much as I'm banging the table about Project Superpowers, I'd sooner have a go at The Black Bat Or The Green Hornet than most of those characters.

    In the interview copied earlier in this thread, the book's writer said he was contacted by Dynamite specifically to create a dark humour book, I suppose to offset Blackcross. So maybe Dynamite agrees more with you than with me and they feel that the standard superhero book is a lost cause (or unable to stand out). Or they can't find anyone interested in taking any of those characters on.

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  • pulphero
    replied
    Originally posted by Captain Canuck View Post
    Except PSP did sell well initially. The first issue to fall out of the top 100 (at 101) was #7 with over 27,000 copies. This is right around the time that the series hit its standard tardiness. That book, and its spinoffs, outsold titles that Dynamite is still publishing, Red Sonja in particular. I think, at the time, only The Boys sold better for Dynamite.
    In 2009 DE published PSP Chapter Two, which started out good with 31k sold, but that was a special $1-priced #0 issue. By issue #12 (Sept. 2010), sales of Ch2 were down below 10k. Still better than some other DE series at the time, even if it was helped by multiple cover variants, and pretty good sales by 2017 standards for DE -- but almost everything sells worse now. PSP was a more-expensive than average series for DE too, so how much of those numbers translated to profit is hard to say.

    At any rate, there has to be some reason they didn't continue publishing PSP after Chapter Two ended (except for a one-shot Xmas Special and the much-later Owl miniseries). What do you think the reason was? I suspect the gap in time between the first series of PSP and now resulted in a lot of those older hardcore fans of GA characters largely retiring from actively purchasing new comics, while the younger but less-committed buyers who tried the first series slowly eroded over the next couple of years. Maybe some of the older GA fans just like reading free GA comics over at the Digital Comic Museum now.

    Don't forget those licensed properties like Green Hornet work somewhat differently; there's a "use it or lose it" factor in effect (that never seemed to bother Dark Horse, but maybe now they're paying for that mistake).
    Last edited by pulphero; 05-18-2017, 11:23 AM.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by pulphero View Post
    2009 is retro. It's almost a decade ago. You can't sell some of the kinds of comics that sold in 2009 today, never mind the kind of comics that didn't even sell all that well in 2009 (like PSP). You could rifle through all the titles and characters DC and Marvel published a decade ago, and come up with a sizable list of them that you won't be seeing again, that the comics consumers of today have no desire (by and large) to see again.
    Except PSP did sell well initially. The first issue to fall out of the top 100 (at 101) was #7 with over 27,000 copies. This is right around the time that the series hit its standard tardiness. That book, and its spinoffs, outsold titles that Dynamite is still publishing, Red Sonja in particular. I think, at the time, only The Boys sold better for Dynamite.

    This is why I find it hard to believe that they can't give these characters a sort of Green Hornet treatment. An occasional mini-series, team-up, etc. I'm not suggesting making them the focus of your line necessarily. And not EVERY character. Some are better known and/or marketable than others. But SOMETHING.
    Last edited by Captain Canuck; 05-17-2017, 01:11 PM.

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